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RedTagAlan · 12/04/2026 00:46

logicisall · 11/04/2026 17:49

US navy ships ‘pass through Strait of Hormuz’
Several warships belonging to the US Navy crossed the Strait of Hormuz on Saturday, according to the US news outlet Axios.
This was the first time a US warship had crossed the strait in a move that was not coordinated with Iran, a US government source told the outlet.
“This was an operation that focused on freedom of navigation through international waters,” the US official said.
The ships entered the strait from the east and then made their way back out into the Arabian Sea.
Iran has claimed that it issued a warning to a US warship entering the strait that it would be attacked if it continued on its course. The warship turned back following the warning, Iranian officials told state TV.

It was easier to c&p

Quote : “This was an operation that focused on freedom of navigation through international waters,” the US official said.

Except I think the US official is wrong. It's only about 24 miles at it's narrowest. I don't know for sure because limited web and can't get the maps, The width depends on the territorial baselines each country lodges with the UN. These base lines are low water marks, and that is used to define the 12 mile territorial waters. 2 X 12 = 24, so at it's narrowest, the full width is territorial. Not international.

Under UNCLOS there is freedom of navigation, but warships must be "stood down", and in any case, the nation who owns that territorial water can impose conditions. The warships could stick to the Oman side of course, but at the narrowest point, it will be Omi territorial water, not international. And there is other "in times of war" stuff. I don't know that bit. I have only read UNCLOS cos I am interested in the South China Sea.

I think Trump and his admin might do a major eff up here. If Trump gets his "joint venture" to charge tolls, it might really mess up freedom of navigation for all.

RedTagAlan · 12/04/2026 01:39

Mar a Lago Bingo. What Trump will say before Monday. And yup, some of this he has already said.

Sort of disclaimer. Yes it is a serious subject. But as Trump would say " Some people say he cannot be taken seriously". Hence Trump bingo, and not peace talk bingo.

Depraved, Desperate, Deluded and Dangerous - Trump Thread #160
RedTagAlan · 12/04/2026 02:45

I misremembered that advert for Knor stock cubes. "Pea and Ham fae a chicken- noo that's clever". I thought it was " Pea an Ham no chicken". Shame, might have worked here.

" Painted white and no gold - that's no whit I wis expecting"

Trump proposes covering executive office building's gray stone facade with white paint - CBS News

Trump proposes covering executive office building's gray stone facade with white paint

The building sits across a driveway from the West Wing and was completed in 1888.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-proposes-painting-executive-office-building-white/

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

logicisall · 12/04/2026 06:57

Whoever asked up thread what will it take to remove Trump, might just be getting an answer.

https://x.com/chiky_handlr/status/2042931496302825750?s=20

Depraved, Desperate, Deluded and Dangerous - Trump Thread #160
Depraved, Desperate, Deluded and Dangerous - Trump Thread #160
Legssses · 12/04/2026 07:00

logicisall · 12/04/2026 06:57

Whoever asked up thread what will it take to remove Trump, might just be getting an answer.

https://x.com/chiky_handlr/status/2042931496302825750?s=20

Finally.

RedTagAlan · 12/04/2026 07:44

logicisall · 12/04/2026 06:57

Whoever asked up thread what will it take to remove Trump, might just be getting an answer.

https://x.com/chiky_handlr/status/2042931496302825750?s=20

Ha ha. This sort of stuff is really interesting from my perspective. I done a web search, my location for this story, and zilch. And it difficult to explain, but you can tell that it is something that is being actively censored. That is they have people, or AI, trawling the web and clicking "ban". This opposed to a "blanket ban", where they just block near all news from a specific country that is on the naughty list. Active V passive I suppose. Why they do this is plain, they do now want people to know people can campaign for politicians to be removed.

But they do leave bits in. Usually right wing, such as fox, that won't open anyway. And this gem. A right wing Trumpist site about Ilhan Omar calling for impeachment.

Ilhan Omar Calls for Trump Impeachment Over Iran Threats (americantribune.com)

And like all Trump apologists, the story is full of propaganda tricks. Such as look here, coincidence ?

"Omar's pattern of confrontation with the Trump administration extends well beyond Iran policy. The White House has actively pursued Omar over alleged immigration fraud, adding a personal dimension to the political clash that makes her repeated removal demands harder to read as disinterested constitutional concern."

And here. The "but he is right and it "might" be working downplaying.

"Trump's language was rough. His Easter Sunday post was profane and confrontational. But the underlying demand, that Iran stop threatening global shipping, is not irrational, and the Monday acknowledgment that Iran had taken a "very significant step" suggests the pressure was producing diplomatic movement."

And lots of cherry picking/ deliberate omission. Just as a poster elsewhere is doing. And Ligicsall pointed it out. " You are missing half the story".

These people are not daft. They know what they are doing. And they are behaving much the same as the Iranian Regime they say they hate so much.

logicisall · 12/04/2026 08:04

We have a result!! #fakepeacetalks

“So what just happened? Well, in Middle Eastern bazaar terms, this is the moment the buyer walks out of the shop saying the price is too high. Only in this case, both sides think they are the seller and in a position to dictate terms.”

Excerpt From
“Vance came to peace talks with a naive assumption - but the Iranians didn't cave”
Sky News
https://apple.news/ASdyUZmpVSJyythYxT4U3xw
This material may be protected by copyright.

Vance came to peace talks with a naive assumption - but the Iranians didn't cave — Sky News

So what just happened? Well, in Middle Eastern bazaar terms, this is the moment the buyer walks out of the shop saying the price is too high. Only in this case, both sides think they are the seller and in a position to dictate terms.

https://apple.news/ASdyUZmpVSJyythYxT4U3xw

logicisall · 12/04/2026 08:08

From the BBC

Iran war: Tehran-US peace talks fail to reach deal as Washington issues 'final offer' - follow live

Vice-President JD Vance says Tehran did not accept Washington's terms, as Iran's foreign minister calls on US to hold back from making "excessive demands".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn4v0xm9y0kt?post=asset%3A8d8e3663-c538-4af9-b138-f6bd5f87976e#post

logicisall · 12/04/2026 08:13

Vance
"We just could not get to a situation where the Iranians were willing to accept our terms."
Describing the US approach to talks, he tells reporters "I think we were quite flexible, we were quite accommodating".

Iran
In a post on social media, Baghaei describes the talks as "intensive", but says the success of ongoing negotiations "depends on the seriousness and good faith of the opposing side".
Baghaei also calls on Washington to refrain from "excessive demands and unlawful requests" and to accept Iran's "legitimate rights and interests".
Among the topics he says are being discussed, are the Strait of Hormuz, Iran's nuclear program, and "a complete end to the war in Iran".

<laughs at 'good faith'>

JoshLymanSwagger · 12/04/2026 08:13

RedTagAlan · 12/04/2026 02:45

I misremembered that advert for Knor stock cubes. "Pea and Ham fae a chicken- noo that's clever". I thought it was " Pea an Ham no chicken". Shame, might have worked here.

" Painted white and no gold - that's no whit I wis expecting"

Trump proposes covering executive office building's gray stone facade with white paint - CBS News

At least it's not orange paint!

It's going to cost a fortune to restore the Oval Office and the Rose Garden already, not to mention whatever he replaces the East Wing with.

Pity he can't be sent the bill for cleaning/repairs when he's out of office in 1017 (and a bit) days.

Heathen.😠

eta Maybe some budding baseball pitchers should practice throwing white paint bombs at his fake orange face.

UnluckyWalnut · 12/04/2026 08:27

I think Trump will send ships to the Strait of Hormuz to escort/protect shipping. There is no other option now. The USA will now be stuck there for years.

logicisall · 12/04/2026 08:37

UnluckyWalnut · 12/04/2026 08:27

I think Trump will send ships to the Strait of Hormuz to escort/protect shipping. There is no other option now. The USA will now be stuck there for years.

Hmmmm ships were getting thru, just not US ships.
Didn't 'holding all the cards' Trump say that the US doesn't really use the SoH much anyway? How many companies will be willing to be 'escorted' by the US when its bigly military might security was leaking like a sieve in Kuwait.
And 😱the $$$$$B to the American people.

I should maybe remove two of those $

UnluckyWalnut · 12/04/2026 08:44

logicisall · 12/04/2026 08:37

Hmmmm ships were getting thru, just not US ships.
Didn't 'holding all the cards' Trump say that the US doesn't really use the SoH much anyway? How many companies will be willing to be 'escorted' by the US when its bigly military might security was leaking like a sieve in Kuwait.
And 😱the $$$$$B to the American people.

I should maybe remove two of those $

Doesn't matter if the US use it or not. It's closure directly impacts the US economy, not to mention it's plummeting reputation and standing in the world. If he abandons it, he will look even weaker and more powerless than he does now.

Even thicko Trump knows he has to get it open soon

logicisall · 12/04/2026 08:50

UnluckyWalnut · 12/04/2026 08:44

Doesn't matter if the US use it or not. It's closure directly impacts the US economy, not to mention it's plummeting reputation and standing in the world. If he abandons it, he will look even weaker and more powerless than he does now.

Even thicko Trump knows he has to get it open soon

Edited

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering what exactly Trump can do next. He's going to flog the altruistic card, isn't he. Look how generous (with other people's money) I am, I going to reopen the SoH for you!

CaveMum · 12/04/2026 08:59

Much as I despise Vance, he’s played a personal blinder with these talks -

  • The face of the US negotiation: makes him look reasonable and statesmanlike.
  • Repeated references to consulting with Trump through the talks: subtly shifts the blame but still portrays loyalty to POTUS.
  • Was conspicuously MIA while the missiles were flying but now front and centre in the talks: gives his anti-war stance credibility and allows him to distance himself from Trump post Midterms.
Legssses · 12/04/2026 09:01

logicisall · 12/04/2026 08:50

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering what exactly Trump can do next. He's going to flog the altruistic card, isn't he. Look how generous (with other people's money) I am, I going to reopen the SoH for you!

I am also wondering what he is going to do.

While it's great that some of the bombing has stopped, it doesn't look hopeful for the world economy.

RedTagAlan · 12/04/2026 09:18

CaveMum · 12/04/2026 08:59

Much as I despise Vance, he’s played a personal blinder with these talks -

  • The face of the US negotiation: makes him look reasonable and statesmanlike.
  • Repeated references to consulting with Trump through the talks: subtly shifts the blame but still portrays loyalty to POTUS.
  • Was conspicuously MIA while the missiles were flying but now front and centre in the talks: gives his anti-war stance credibility and allows him to distance himself from Trump post Midterms.

Here is the obligatory disagree :)

The reports I have seen, he stuck on nukes. Totally avoided the massive elephant of Lebanon. I reckon if his main thing was to open the SoH, that should be first. In fact, he admitted the nuke stuff was destroyed, then went on the old story of " maybe 5 years.. 10 years " etc. They don't have a nuke now and won't have one soon. Nukes can go on back burner.

He was vague about contacting POTUS.

“Obviously, we were talking to the president consistently. I don’t know how many times we talked to him, a half-dozen times, a dozen times over the past 21 hours,” Vance told reporters in Islamabad. (CNN)

If he talked to POTUS 12 times in 21 hours, that's once every hour and a quarter. That says to me he won't take a dump without asking the boss.

Front and center ? Hmm... I think more pulled in against his wishes. I reckon Vance knows he is the fall guy here. He is gonna be "Penced".

But apart from those bits, I agree.

Spandauer · 12/04/2026 09:19

Not good news but not unexpected, sad to say.

Trump will resort to more threats and hyperbole as usual.

Vance will now do everything in his power to discredit the Iranian delegation and make himself look like he was the most reasonable negotiator. He ultimately has no real power and would have been using the "I have to consult with the President" as a shield.

Praying that behind the scenes, there is a better chance of success. No need for the posturing in front of the world's press.

Hope Hungary gives Orbán (and Vance) the finger today. 🖕

OP posts:
logicisall · 12/04/2026 09:28

Iran's 10-point plan v Trump's 15-point plan:

IRAN
1- Complete halt to all aggression: Iran wants a permanent end to attacks, not just a temporary truce, and crucially wants protection extended to its network of proxies, including Hezbollah and the Houthis.
2- US military withdrawal from the region: Iran is calling for the withdrawal of US combat forces from the Middle East and a prohibition on attacks from regional military bases.
3- Recognition of Iran's right to nuclear enrichment: Iran wants Washington to formally recognise its right to enrich uranium on its own territory, which has consistently been the central US and Israeli concern in negotiations.
4- Lifting of all primary US sanctions: Iran is seeking the complete removal of primary sanctions, which bar US entities from doing business with Iran and form the backbone of Washington's economic pressure campaign.
5- Removal of all secondary sanctions: This would end sanctions against foreign entities that do business with Iranian institutions.
6- End of all UN Security Council resolutions: Iran is seeking the termination of all UN Security Council resolutions against it.
7- End of all IAEA resolutions on Iran's nuclear programme: Iran is seeking the removal of International Atomic Energy Agency resolutions criticising its nuclear activity, which is fundamentally incompatible with US non-proliferation policy.
8- US non-aggression guarantee: Iran is seeking a binding pledge that the US will never attack or threaten military force against the country.
9- Recognised control over the Strait of Hormuz: Iran is seeking controlled passage through the Strait of Hormuz in co-ordination with Iranian armed forces, which would mean Iran retains its leverage over the waterway.
10- Reparations and reconstruction: Iran is seeking compensation for damage caused during the conflict, something the US does not typically provide to adversarial governments for wartime damage.

Trump's 15-point plan
The full US plan has not been officially published, but its key elements have been reported through US and Israeli media. it has also been leaked through mediators.
The plan is believed to mainly include Iran committing to no nuclear weapons, handing over its highly enriched uranium, limits on Tehran's defence capabilities, an end to regional proxy groups, the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz, and an acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist.
More specifically, reported points include:
1- Complete dismantling of Iran's nuclear facilities at Natanz, Isfahan, and Fordow.
2- A permanent commitment from Iran to never develop nuclear weapons.
3- Handover of Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium to the IAEA, with Iran no longer permitted to enrich uranium domestically.
4- A commitment to allow the IAEA to monitor all elements of Iran's remaining nuclear infrastructure.
5- Limits on Tehran's ballistic missile programme, including reportedly restrictions on both the range and number of missiles Iran can possess.
6- Cessation of support to militant groups in the region including Hezbollah, the Houthis and Hamas.
7-The Strait of Hormuz would be declared a free maritime zone and remain permanently open.
8- An acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist – one of the most politically explosive demands given Iran's long-standing position.
9- The plan included an initial 30-day ceasefire during which the two sides would negotiate the terms of a broader deal.
10- Extensive sanctions relief to Iran in exchange for compliance with the above demands.
11- US support for electricity generation at Iran's Bushehr Nuclear Power Plant – a civilian carrot to soften the blow of dismantling military nuclear capabilities.
Iran had initially rejected the 15-point plan, with one official describing the demands as "largely excessive, unrealistic and unreasonable", despite US President Donald Trump claiming in late March that Tehran had agreed to "most of" the points.
Mr Trump distanced himself from the publicly released Iranian version of the 10-point plan, writing on that "numerous agreements, lists, and letters are being sent out by people that have absolutely nothing to do with the USA/Iran negotiation".

Updated: April 11, 2026, 8:33 PM
(Nationalnews.com)

I could have told both parties at the beginning that negotiations had an expected 100% failure rate.
But at least Pakistan managed to get them to the table.

CaveMum · 12/04/2026 09:47

RedTagAlan · 12/04/2026 09:18

Here is the obligatory disagree :)

The reports I have seen, he stuck on nukes. Totally avoided the massive elephant of Lebanon. I reckon if his main thing was to open the SoH, that should be first. In fact, he admitted the nuke stuff was destroyed, then went on the old story of " maybe 5 years.. 10 years " etc. They don't have a nuke now and won't have one soon. Nukes can go on back burner.

He was vague about contacting POTUS.

“Obviously, we were talking to the president consistently. I don’t know how many times we talked to him, a half-dozen times, a dozen times over the past 21 hours,” Vance told reporters in Islamabad. (CNN)

If he talked to POTUS 12 times in 21 hours, that's once every hour and a quarter. That says to me he won't take a dump without asking the boss.

Front and center ? Hmm... I think more pulled in against his wishes. I reckon Vance knows he is the fall guy here. He is gonna be "Penced".

But apart from those bits, I agree.

I don’t disagree with your points, I was going for more of a broad overview 😜

What it does demonstrate to me is that he’s not made his mind up about 2028 yet. There have been rumours for a few months that he was going to step back from running because he couldn’t see a way to sufficiently distance himself from Trump in time, and with age on his side a run in 2032/2036 would still be very possible.

We all know Trump is going to make Vance and Rubio beg for his blessing in one form or another, if they run for the nomination. He’s going to enjoy playing favourites with them and pitting them against each other. Heck he’ll probably tease it out for a few months than endorse a random 3rd guy - probably Don Jr.

RedTagAlan · 12/04/2026 09:52

That "Iran's 10-point plan v Trump's 15-point plan:" looks similar to a first meet for an acrimonious divorce settlement. The nukes are the pet dog. "I want the dog". "You can't have the dog". They got nowhere near who gets the house.

I am not downplaying nukes by comparing them to the pet dog. Nukes are yonks away, if ever.

walllaw · 12/04/2026 09:58

Re my earlier posts about being so annoyed I potentially wouldn't vote, and in genuine answer to @AcrossthePond55 and slightly less genuine answer to the poster who seemed to imply I have blank space between my ears, who I won't name (and maybe I do, so not entirely disputing that) -

I've been a good foot soldier since I was 18. I've voted, I've donated decently significant amounts, I've collected signatures to get candidates on ballots, I've door knocked, I've stood on street corners and in farmers' markets registering people to vote, I've helped transport people to the polls, I've helped people figure out how to get their mail-in ballots and reminded them to send them in, I've helped people figure out their state's requirements and how to cure their ballots when necessary, I've asked questions and contacted representatives, I've gone to meet the candidate events.

Yes, there are good people and candidates, some great ones even, but the party as a whole is a shameful, limp, ineffective entity that is not serving their country. We are up against a regime whose own actions hand the Dems the necessary tools every day, and every day, other than a few fighters, they decide to not take them up. It's like a situation where someone says, an armed militia is about to invade your house. Here's a siren that can halt them if you use it. And you decide not to use the siren, because maybe, just maybe - even though they've invaded your house every day for the past year - they won't do it today.

I'm very happy for the Dems to be a big tent. I don't need to be in agreement with every elected rep's policy stances, but I do expect to see them unify around the big issue - preserving democracy and fighting off a fascist takeover. Instead we get spurts here and there, from a few people, while the rest just seem to - well, I don't know what they do, in all honesty. There's not much governing going on at the moment.

Where were the rotating teams to them going to Minneapolis every day to stand outside with cameras? Donald Trump said publicly that we can't fund healthcare because we have wars to fund. Why are the Democrats assuming the vast majority of the country is going to read about that on page 10 (or whatever) of The New York Times? Jamie Raskin's letter demanding a cognitive test was great, but why isn't there a massive show of support with Dems standing on the Capitol steps making a circus of it? Where were the plane loads of them flying out to the places where children are dying because Elon Musk snatched away the food and medications that were keeping them alive? Do they not understand that a phone camera and a TikTok story are more effective than a NYT story? I mean, look at the long NYT story about the fraud in Minnesota compared to the Nick Shirley bullshit video - which was more effective in swaying public opinion?

And the mainstream media treats Dems almost with contempt because they let them- make yourselves seen and heard. When the NYT made it sound like AOC couldn't answer a question, where were the loud defenders comparing it to how they sane wash Trump? Nowhere, because a. they never fight back, and b. the party treats her with a similar lack of respect.

Why don't they have a very visible presence talking about AI and regulation because, the devastation of the move away from coal is going to be nothing compared to the devastation of the move away from anyone having jobs. People under 35 know that and they're waiting. And waiting. Oh, right, most of the reps are too old to understand/care/and/or are funded by the pro AI super pacs.

Furthermore, impeach the fucker. I don't care if Chuck and Jeffries think it will be unpopular. It's morally right. And it's an opportunity to air some of this shit openly, loudly and repeatedly.

Sorry for the long and boring rant, but I'm thoroughly fed up, in case that wasn't clear :)

SerendipityJane · 12/04/2026 10:00

DuncinToffee · 11/04/2026 23:09

Even Fox news is calling out Trump's bullshit now

Fox News points out that Trump’s claim about all the Iranian leaders being dead is undermined by the fact his administration is negotiating with Iranian leaders right now

Unless they had a cartoon explaining that it wouldn't be picked up by their viewers.

Spandauer · 12/04/2026 10:02

A guide for the non-military people who don't live near a US base (like moi).

Bunker busters and a Burger King: a visual guide to US military bases on British soil
War with Iran has brought 15 American sites across the UK countryside firmly into the spotlight.
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/12/visual-guide-us-military-bases-british-soil-iran-war?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

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