A whole civilisation will die tonight.

[todayImstruggling]

Tumps exact words today!

WTAF? That sounds like he is about to drop a Nuke!

How the hell has the world got here?

Trumps truth social posts sounds more like something that a dramatic gleeful tv presenter would say in a game show. Not something a world leader threatening to blow up an entire civilisation.

https://news.sky.com/story/iran-war-latest-trump-tehran-us-israel-kharg-island-netanyahu-lebanon-strikes-drone-live-sky-news-13509565

What he said was horrible but words are just words and the way the IRGC speak is inflammatory too. So are their actions come to that.

obviously it takes great strength of character to do that, I understand that. But what I’m talking about is actual ‘war crimes’ why do we have a deft of war crimes if it doesn’t mean anything in practice?

Definition, not deft!

Or is it not actually a war crime because it was words not actions?

War crimes are only ever committed by the losing side
History is written by the victors

There's been a ceasefire agreement that includes opening the straits

@SingleSexSpacesInSchools if you think what we're looking at is a 'mild recession' you're deluded. It's an unprecedented energy crisis. The International Energy Commission has said the "the scale of disruption exceeds that of the 1973 oil crisis, the 1979 energy shock and the 2022 market turmoil.".

I'm based in the region. The UK may be relatively insulated from the impact for now but poorer countries are already being hit badly - Egypt has turned off all street lights (except apparently the ones by speed cameras) because they can't afford to power them for example.

It's not 'just words' when you're supposed to be the leader of the free world FFS. What happened to being Presidential and leading by example? Behaving like a three year-old having a tantrum in Tescos helps no-one.

Words can be a war crime. Whether or not Trump went far enough is a matter for detailed legal review. Terrorizing civilians is a war crime.

Threatening 'no quarter' as Hegseth did is definitively a war crime. Not sure how far the 'I didn't really mean it, it was just bluster' works as a defence.

My guess is that war crimes need to actually happen to be classified as war crimes.

Unfortunately, war crimes have very likely happened in this war by the US, Iran and Israel. But probably Trump's tantrum doesn't count.

Lots of minimising of Trump's words and actions as always.

Some of us expect more from the supposed' leader of the free world' than from a terrorist state.

And of course (although it should go without saying): one party committing a war crime isn't justification for another one to commit a war crime in retaliation! All sides have been attacking civilian infrastructure - all sides have actually been committing war crimes.

The reason Trump (and the US government)'s actions are getting attention as war crimes is Iran is a terrible regime. It's not a shock they would commit war crimes. What Israel is doing is also their standard playbook. Completely throwing out the book on international law isn't the playbook we expect from a theoretically 'civilized' global power like the US, and it's terrifying to see how little international law actually makes a difference if people with power decide they don't care.

Don't be so silly. What was true in 1411 isn't true today. There's more written history out there than gets taught in schools. Its not all written by the West either.

Mild recession compared to the economic fallout from a) Iran nuking Tel Aviv or - way way worse - b) China Invading Taiwan.

This war has shown the Chinese their air defence tech is shit - Iran had mainly Chinese stuff

Therefore - China has a very good chance of delaying their 2027 Taiwan invasion plans, which if executed will knock the planet on it's ass for a very very very long time.

I feel everything the US has done is entirely justified as a lesser evil if it prevents Iran having any nuclear capability.

Ok sure.

Most of the rest of the world disagrees with you.

How exactly has it all worked out? Iran will re-arm more anti Israel and anti the US than ever, the threat will only grow. Trump has proved to Iran that it was right that it has to defend itself from the threat of Israel and the US, where will that lead in the future? And Iran will see this as a great victory.

I disagree - the US is massively economically and politically weakened by this. It's been demonstrated that the world has been powerless to stop US/Israel or Iran in their actions in the Middle East (god help us if Yemen start up again) or Russia in its actions in Ukraine. It's not at all clear that China wouldn't just be able to take Taiwan now should they want to. Whether they would want to when they have a strong economic play for the RMB to become a more powerful global country is a question.

But yes if you classify a 'mild recession' as any form of economic downturn that is less bad that all out nuclear war, then it will be a mild recession. That's an unusual way of classifying recessions though! I don't think you'd get many economists to agree with you - when was the last non-mild recession in your mind?

Most people can’t decipher the truth any more from fiction completely understandably when they’re bombarded with false news
When there’s too much noise, everybody just stops listening
I’m sure that was the case in 1411 as well

Because one of the terms of a permanent ceasefire will be 100% removal of nuclear material

If by most you mean more than 50%..... I doubt it.

You have to compare whats happening - is war bad - yes

is the IRG way way worse than the USA? Hell yes. So sometimes you just hold your breathe and do the lesser of two evils

Abstention and appeasement is not an option here.

Even if that were true - and I don't agree that it is - I'm not clear as to how exactly the recent war has brought us any closer to that goal?

It won't be - it's not a condition Iran will accept and it's not a condition that the US will have international support for insisting on. The only debate will be the level to which they can enrich (is that how it's said) - and it will probably be agreed that they can do so to the level previously agreed. Maybe a bit less, but it certainly won't be zero.

Iran has proven they hold the trump card here, that they're prepared to use it, and it will be a long time until the US manages to wipe out their military capabilities to the extent required for them to stop threatening shipping or the Gulf States. This is a regime willing to kill 30k of its own population to support itself. There isn't anything short of massive nuclear attack that the US/Israel can do. I'm not clear threatening that would make any difference at this stage - Trump effectively already has.