Why is MN more concerned about the trans debate than misogynistic men and discrimination against women?

[Smurfetteto]

Men hate me, a lot of them. Overtly, covertly.

I've never met a trans person who hates me for no reason.

I'm not trans, I'm female and binary.

I just want to know why MN puts all the debate into trans and not male and female misogynists.

It’s because misogyny did not exist in those golden times when men were men and women were women and there was none of this blurring of gender roles and cross dressing nonsense going on. Gender ideology is responsible for all misogyny, even in the countries that don’t have it. In fact, it is worth giving up rights to contraception and abortions so long as we can purge the trans mind virus from society. I read this on a feminist blogger site that mumsnetters frequently recommend, so it must be true.

If women just went back to only wearing skirts, and the men to only wearing trousers, and we all stuck to our traditions and forget about the concept of gender identity then misogyny and femicide would halve overnight.

Ultimately, the question we are being asked - well, obviously, not 'asked'! - is 'do we want protections, services and laws based around sex to stop being based around sex - so they no longer exist - and become based around 'what people feel they are like' ?'

And if you ask 'OK: how would that work? How are you determining these new groups you're proposing? How is a male-or-female man different from a male-or-female woman? Will the concept of sex still exist and in which circumstances will it apply? What are you telling children it is to be a boy or to be a girl, because some of the things I've seen are based on the problematic basis of boys being masculine and girls being feminine?' then you're told you are bigoted and obsessed for even asking these questions.

Do you actually believe people on MN are making this case, or are you just pretending to because you don't have a response to the case we ARE making?

I'm going to go ahead and assume it's the latter and that's why you have bothered to post with the sole aim of derailing the thread.

@Smurfetteto @FrootyCider

For all this talk of misogynistic men, doesn't it bother you that you and your friends are being misogynistic by removing another woman's right to consent?

By saying that trans women are welcome in your group/pub/toilets you have removed the right to consent, you are forcing other women to have men in their spaces or segregate themselves.

I spoke to a science teacher that I worked with about men in women's sport, and she was happy for this to happen because it didn't affect her, she hated sports, yet she believed that she had the right to make other women play sport against men.

Unless you have asked ever woman in your group what they think and want and allowed them to answer without fear of reprocussion, you are just selfish bullies that only care for your self and your group.

Because misogny is the very air we breathe every day. Some of us give a shit.

This, 100%.

OP - you really don't have to look all that far to find numerous discussions about exactly what you say we don't talk about.

There are dozens of threads every single day in 'Chat' and 'Relationships' from women who are in relationships with the most repellent misogynistic sexist men. They come asking for advice about how to improve their relationship and go away having been told that the best thing all round would be to ditch the bastard.

There are also many more threads on the boards about work and how employers actively discriminate against parents who have to juggle their job and childcare. Not to mention all the ones where women's career prospects, earning potential and pension savings are adversely affected because they are the default parent, while their husband/partner earns far more than they do and has no such concerns.

It's the same thing.

The trans "debate" and more generalised misogyny are two cheeks of the same hairy arse.

You understand that if you’re fine undressing in front of males then that does not then give those males permission to see other women undressing right? How bizarre that you seem to think you can give consent on behalf of others.

I just want to know why MN puts all the debate into trans and not male and female misogynists.
What? MN is famous for LTB!

I'm a bloke so I should probably stay the hell out of this one, but I think it's because while gender ideology is only a small part of all the sexism in the world, it's one of the few forms of sexism that is strongly promoted as if it were progressive.

I don’t think any one would object to a TIM in a mixed sex walking group ( unless of course the group had been advertised as Women Only to perhaps encourage women who for emotional, social or religious reasons would not be able to participate in a mixed sex walking group, or to accommodate women who just prefer to walk with other women) but please remind your TIM chums that they are not women and that women are entitled to privacy and dignity in places which they would expect to be single sex such as toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards. Those facilities also exist for men for roughly the same reasons, and if your TIM friends are unhappy about using male spaces because they are worried about the reaction of other men then that is an issue for all men to sort out, not women.

Thank you. It would be helpful if more men recognised this simple statement.

Yes. When I came out in the 1990s, men who identified as lesbians were viewed as creeps trying it on. Now they’re brave, stunning & oppressed.

So if I end up in the same women’s toilets as you and your trans friends, they HAVE to be allowed in because you said so? How does that work? Are you the PM? The King? What authority do you have to consent to all women?

*for

I actually believe that the poster does think that! Always remember the “be kind” is a one way thing!

One has to ask if the OP has met a transowman and why OP sees them as not men and why OP doesn’t think other men who say “I’m a nice guy” are telling the truth

Tbh the more men that would be willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with women and say this out loud, the better. Most of your brothers don't give a shit.

Because so many people do it

This. Most people recognise that a man punching a woman in the face is bad, except for the progressives who say it’s bad if it’s husband punching his wife but to be celebrated if it’s a man pretending to be a woman in a boxing match.

Ok, point taken from PP on the 'LTB' threads. I still come across misogyny/discriminatory words and or actions on a regular basis. I'm not even in a relationship!

I've challenged sexism and misogyny on several occasions before. Most people just don't get it.

Trans people are a part from that because at present I'm not affected (that's not to say that wouldn't ever be or that I don't care about other women who may have been harmed).

Absolutely do not stay out of it! We need both men and women to point out biological reality.

If men can identify as women, then why not do away with the terms "man" "men," and '"male" and let's all embrace being referred to as women and we all use the women's spaces? How would that resonate with some of you? Or Is it only those men who wear dresses, wigs or skirts that you find acceptable in women's private spaces? I worry that if the current situation regarding trans women, aka men, continues, women may eventually lose all our safe spaces anyway. Next we'll find them arguing that men, transwomen, are already using our spaces and that will be it. If we give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

If we give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

They already have, hence the FWS SC case.