Why is MN more concerned about the trans debate than misogynistic men and discrimination against women?

[Smurfetteto]

Men hate me, a lot of them. Overtly, covertly.

I've never met a trans person who hates me for no reason.

I'm not trans, I'm female and binary.

I just want to know why MN puts all the debate into trans and not male and female misogynists.

The trans debate is misogyny and is discrimination against women.

TW ( here we are back focussing on men) are welcome

they just remain men when sex matters

it’s pretty stupid to insist that “being welcome to anyone” means “doing everything exactly as they want “

and if we don’t do everything they say and want then we are hateful and not welcoming ?

I call that bullying and disrespect

Here we go. ‘Far right’, ‘safe abortions’, ‘birth control’. BINGO!
fortunately here in the UK, there is universal access to abortions on demand, birth control and being ‘far right’ (whatever that might mean) isn’t unlawful.
Why do you assume that we can’t fight for a whole range of women’s rights at the same time as knowing that men cannot be women? Is it because we’re simple women and have to how to the menz?

How to tell women from men

one lady says to another person “would you mind stepping out whilst I undress”

if tye other person if female they will say yes instantly

they don’t quiz about trauma or anything - they would just respect that woman

now compare that response to transowmen … such as that doctor

Because we want to stop your question about 'misogynistic men and discrimination against women' being understood and acted on as "people of either sex who hate people of either sex and discrimination against people of either sex".

I am equally or more concerned about misogynistic men and discrimination against women as well.

But to accept TWAW means accepting that both women and men aren't people who belong to a sex class but to a definition no-one will describe - ie it's meaningless.

@Taztoy your post made me cry. I wish you well x

Right, but what would the opinion be?

That sex exists, doesn't change, is separate from gender identity, and sometimes services, policies or laws need to apply to one sex or another regardless of what someone feels inside, what football team they support or what colour their hair is.

How is this hard to understand? Genuinely?

The trans situation is a very clear example of women being expected to put the needs of men above their own needs and the needs of other women and girls.

Men created the need for single sex spaces. They are the ones who spoilt it for everyone. But instead of directing their anger and aggression towards rapists and sex pests, trans people are angry at women.

Lots of people on those boards don't have gender identities that match their sex. Are you saying those people are anti-trans?

*thought

You tell me @Smurfetteto There is an obsession with trans women on here.

What’s wrong with me not wanting a man in my counselling space or in a room where I am using the toilet or getting changed?

Nothing at all, and everyone knows it.

They are the exact same thing, OP - “trans” ideology IS misogynistic men and discrimination against women. Worrying that you cannot see that.

It is on topic. We are exactly talking about males/men. What’s LGB got to do with it? We are talking about men, who claim some ‘womanly feelings’ and want to force their way into female only single sex spaces. Who scream and shout death and rape threats at women. And about how when women have pushed back against the erosion of their rights to single sex spaces they have been unequivocally shut down. Lost their jobs. Been doxed, been attacked, been subjected to relentless online abuse. If that isn’t misogyny and discrimination against women I don’t know what is.

Trans rights activism is misogyny in a dress. It’s male-born people demanding they have access to women’s sex-based legal rights/spaces/sports etc. It takes away women’s sex-based rights by including men in the social and legal definition of ‘woman’. Under trans activism women have nothing that men don’t also have access to. The trans activism of the ‘progressive’ left and the ‘traditional’ values of the conservative right are just two sides of the same misogynist coin.

Do you realise that you need to be able to define a woman to be able to define misogyny?

Oh wow @FrootyCider this is great. Is there any chance you could finally be the one to tell us what the difference is between a transwoman and a man? How do we know? Is it clothes? shoes? hair? makeup? A declaration of woman hood? Womanly essence? I’ve been told it’s not aesthetics, it’s an inner feeling inside, so should anyone with that ‘inner feeling’ be allowed in women’s spaces? How do we decipher who can and can’t?

I’m actually genuinely interested as we get told this a lot, so if transwomen were to be allowed in women’s spaces, how do we know when a man is not a man but a transwoman?

For full disclosure, I am not comfortable sharing my intimate spaces with any penis person, but if transwomen are different to men, please tell me how so I can address my bigotry.

I went for my first mammogram last week. I was nervous. But it was all absoiutely fine and a big part of the reason for that was that all the staff in the clinic were women.

If I’d walked into that room topless & seen a man, whatever he called himself, I’d have probably made myself stay but all my instincts would have been saying otherwise.

It's only one section of MN. Admittedly a somewhat obsessive one, which is what makes it seem more pervasive than it actually is.

Nothing at all. It’s the obsession with this particular issue, when there are so many others affecting women and girls that constantly amazes me. It’s everywhere on mn. Even hiding the board that’s dedicated to it doesn’t stop it seeping into every single conversation on here - even style and beauty. It’s the obsession that puzzles me, not the opinion.

How do you make misoginy a crime if you can’t define what a woman is?

thank you for this thread. It’s reminded me why we need to keep fighting for women’s safe spaces where only females are allowed. It’s reminded me that a large minority of women openly self sabotage by pretending they think transwomen are men and cheerfully saying they’re cool with men being in women’s groups and activities. It’s reminded me that we need to keep fighting and that whilst the tide has turned in favour of sanity, common sense and the rights of actual biological women, there are still some women who think it’s their job to be emotional support humans for men who like to wear dresses and say their new pronoun makes them an actual woman.

It’s because it’s really quite insane and misogynistic, and we’re all still wondering how it’s been allowed to happen. That’s why it galvanises people.

How is any type of misogyny allowed to happen? How is so much violence against women and girls allowed to happen?

This isn’t the only unbelievable thing happening in the fun world of misogyny. It isn’t even, on my opinion the biggest issue (yes I know it’s important, symbolic of male entitlement etc) and yet The same old few people manage to take over every debate, discussion with the same issue. Again and agsin Which is what makes me use the word obsession with regard to it. The op has obviously noticed it too.

I’ll give a couple of examples. During the general election campaign, a discussion about, say, the Conservative’s fiscal policies. The third or fourth post would be “at least they know what a woman is” and the whole thread would then be about that. Or on style and besuty, a debate about a pair of M&S trousers, 2nd post will be about their changing room policy. There are many others. It’s just weird, this obsession here. Weird.