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Why is MN more concerned about the trans debate than misogynistic men and discrimination against women?

160 replies

Smurfetteto · 08/03/2026 06:27

Men hate me, a lot of them. Overtly, covertly.

I've never met a trans person who hates me for no reason.

I'm not trans, I'm female and binary.

I just want to know why MN puts all the debate into trans and not male and female misogynists.

OP posts:
potpourree · 08/03/2026 23:49

Smurfetteto · 08/03/2026 17:47

Ok, point taken from PP on the 'LTB' threads. I still come across misogyny/discriminatory words and or actions on a regular basis. I'm not even in a relationship!

I've challenged sexism and misogyny on several occasions before. Most people just don't get it.

Trans people are a part from that because at present I'm not affected (that's not to say that wouldn't ever be or that I don't care about other women who may have been harmed).

I'm asking genuinely in the spirit of discussion - do you believe that trans women are literally women? That the definition of woman that you use doesn't actually mean "female adult" but something that applies equally to anyone of both sexes? (And if so, what inner quality do you believe differentiates a woman from a man?)

Or is it more along the lines of "female people except for those female people that wish to not be female, and additionally male people that wish to be female" (ie it's still about either the sex you are or the sex you would like your body to be)?

Smurfetteto · 09/03/2026 18:29

potpourree · 08/03/2026 23:49

I'm asking genuinely in the spirit of discussion - do you believe that trans women are literally women? That the definition of woman that you use doesn't actually mean "female adult" but something that applies equally to anyone of both sexes? (And if so, what inner quality do you believe differentiates a woman from a man?)

Or is it more along the lines of "female people except for those female people that wish to not be female, and additionally male people that wish to be female" (ie it's still about either the sex you are or the sex you would like your body to be)?

For the purpose of clarity, I don't believe transwomen are biologically female. I don't have anything against men or boys wanting to be female. I can't say I blame them, I wouldn't want to be male either. Biologically they are not women, it doesn't matter how much surgery or how many hormones are taken, you are born into your biological sex.

If gender roles and appearances, and the archaic patriarchal system weren't so rigid and excepted as the norm, I believe we'd live in a far more peaceful world.

Public toilets should be monitored (and properly cleaned!) regardless of gender.

OP posts:
Needspaceforlego · 09/03/2026 18:42

Smurfetteto · 09/03/2026 18:29

For the purpose of clarity, I don't believe transwomen are biologically female. I don't have anything against men or boys wanting to be female. I can't say I blame them, I wouldn't want to be male either. Biologically they are not women, it doesn't matter how much surgery or how many hormones are taken, you are born into your biological sex.

If gender roles and appearances, and the archaic patriarchal system weren't so rigid and excepted as the norm, I believe we'd live in a far more peaceful world.

Public toilets should be monitored (and properly cleaned!) regardless of gender.

How do you feel about transgender boys, as in biological males using girls changing rooms?

Or in toilets while a young girl is trying to change Sanitary protection.

Or men who have raped women being in women's prisons?

Its not just clothes that's the issue its deeper and bigger than that.

EvangelineTheNightStar · 09/03/2026 18:48

Needspaceforlego · 09/03/2026 18:42

How do you feel about transgender boys, as in biological males using girls changing rooms?

Or in toilets while a young girl is trying to change Sanitary protection.

Or men who have raped women being in women's prisons?

Its not just clothes that's the issue its deeper and bigger than that.

I think the general response sadly ends up “but what do the transgirls want?, they’re the priority” sadly.

Haulage · 09/03/2026 18:59

Smurfetteto · 09/03/2026 18:29

For the purpose of clarity, I don't believe transwomen are biologically female. I don't have anything against men or boys wanting to be female. I can't say I blame them, I wouldn't want to be male either. Biologically they are not women, it doesn't matter how much surgery or how many hormones are taken, you are born into your biological sex.

If gender roles and appearances, and the archaic patriarchal system weren't so rigid and excepted as the norm, I believe we'd live in a far more peaceful world.

Public toilets should be monitored (and properly cleaned!) regardless of gender.

If gender roles and appearances, and the archaic patriarchal system weren't so rigid and excepted as the norm, I believe we'd live in a far more peaceful world.

Yes, agreed. Therefore as a society we should be working towards abolishing gender norms because they’re the mechanism by which patriarchy restricts and harms both women and men, although it’s obviously mainly women who are disadvantaged. That’s the basic premise of radical feminism.

Fucking the patriarchy means rejecting gender norms, not elevating them to the point where you think that a person is a woman if they wear eyeliner or wax their body hair!

Smurfetteto · 09/03/2026 19:17

Haulage · 09/03/2026 18:59

If gender roles and appearances, and the archaic patriarchal system weren't so rigid and excepted as the norm, I believe we'd live in a far more peaceful world.

Yes, agreed. Therefore as a society we should be working towards abolishing gender norms because they’re the mechanism by which patriarchy restricts and harms both women and men, although it’s obviously mainly women who are disadvantaged. That’s the basic premise of radical feminism.

Fucking the patriarchy means rejecting gender norms, not elevating them to the point where you think that a person is a woman if they wear eyeliner or wax their body hair!

Agree. Wearing make up and having hair free skin does not make me a woman. My vagina and all the other bits do, my XX chromosomes, periods and the discrimination I face based on my biological sex makes me female.
Transwomen, those who don't wish to be gender normative, do need protection though whilst we figure this out!
I still do feel that gender normative men, regardless of whether they're left or right wing, are where the primary attention should be focussed. They are the majority of where misogyny lies, along with gender normative women who have internalised it.

OP posts:
SpanielsAreNutty · 09/03/2026 19:19

Smurfetteto · 09/03/2026 18:29

For the purpose of clarity, I don't believe transwomen are biologically female. I don't have anything against men or boys wanting to be female. I can't say I blame them, I wouldn't want to be male either. Biologically they are not women, it doesn't matter how much surgery or how many hormones are taken, you are born into your biological sex.

If gender roles and appearances, and the archaic patriarchal system weren't so rigid and excepted as the norm, I believe we'd live in a far more peaceful world.

Public toilets should be monitored (and properly cleaned!) regardless of gender.

I don't believe transwomen are biologically female.

You're a bigot then.

Haulage · 09/03/2026 19:27

Smurfetteto · 09/03/2026 19:17

Agree. Wearing make up and having hair free skin does not make me a woman. My vagina and all the other bits do, my XX chromosomes, periods and the discrimination I face based on my biological sex makes me female.
Transwomen, those who don't wish to be gender normative, do need protection though whilst we figure this out!
I still do feel that gender normative men, regardless of whether they're left or right wing, are where the primary attention should be focussed. They are the majority of where misogyny lies, along with gender normative women who have internalised it.

I don’t think you’ve understood my point. Men who think that adherence to the archaic gender norms associated by our patriarchal society with the female sex makes them women are not rejecting gender norms, they’re elevating them above material reality.

Men who perform feminine gender norms are just men, exactly the same as all the other men. You might as well be claiming that the men who like broccoli are more misogynist than those who prefer cauliflower.

GenderlessVoid · 10/03/2026 04:03

I've focused on this issue because there have been important court cases and proposed legislation. I started thinking about it because I have PTSD and can't share loos, changing rooms, or other intimate spaces with men, including transwomen. They trigger a trauma response. At first, I thought it would simply be a matter of everyone agreeing on what, to me, seemed an obvious need for separate facilities for transwomen and for women who needed or preferred spaces/services without transwomen. Instead, when I tried to explain why I can't share spaces with transwomen, I was called a transphobe, a bigot, told to get over my trauma response, told that I was a bad person because of my trauma response, and other things that indicated that I was the problem and a very bad person.

It was cruel. There was no empathy at all for my disability. Many feminists, who should understand trauma responses since they're common among women who have been sexually assaulted, refused to listen to why people with trauma responses can't just get over it or that it's an autonomic response that has nothing to do with how we feel about transpeople or men.

The response to lesbians who didn't want to have a relationship with transwomen was pure rape culture. Once I saw that, I noticed how a lot of it is rape culture: men feeling entitled to women (and their spaces, bodies, time, etc.), anger at women's boundaries, an attempt to destroy our ability to say "no" and to punish us for trying. I don't understand how any feminist can support it.

@Smurfetteto

You say

Transwomen, those who don't wish to be gender normative, do need protection though whilst we figure this out!

What about women like me or other women who can't share single sex spaces or services with transwomen? What are we supposed to do?

potpourree · 10/03/2026 09:14

Smurfetteto · 09/03/2026 18:29

For the purpose of clarity, I don't believe transwomen are biologically female. I don't have anything against men or boys wanting to be female. I can't say I blame them, I wouldn't want to be male either. Biologically they are not women, it doesn't matter how much surgery or how many hormones are taken, you are born into your biological sex.

If gender roles and appearances, and the archaic patriarchal system weren't so rigid and excepted as the norm, I believe we'd live in a far more peaceful world.

Public toilets should be monitored (and properly cleaned!) regardless of gender.

Ok @Smurfetteto but as per my question, do you believe they are literally women, because when you say "woman" you don't mean "female person" but something else?

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