Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Why is MN more concerned about the trans debate than misogynistic men and discrimination against women?

160 replies

Smurfetteto · 08/03/2026 06:27

Men hate me, a lot of them. Overtly, covertly.

I've never met a trans person who hates me for no reason.

I'm not trans, I'm female and binary.

I just want to know why MN puts all the debate into trans and not male and female misogynists.

OP posts:
potpourree · 08/03/2026 10:08

BitOutOfPractice · 08/03/2026 09:53

Nothing at all. It’s the obsession with this particular issue, when there are so many others affecting women and girls that constantly amazes me. It’s everywhere on mn. Even hiding the board that’s dedicated to it doesn’t stop it seeping into every single conversation on here - even style and beauty. It’s the obsession that puzzles me, not the opinion.

I find this interesting.
When you see a lot of posts about a subject, do you conclude that everyone who posts about it has it as a main concern of theirs ?

I feel there is some attribution error going on - assuming that a certain proportion of posts about a subject on a forum directly translates to "each person involved is interested in this subject to that same proportion".

I agree that there are thousands of issues affecting women and girls. And I am equally obsessed with them. In order to address that, we need to know what people mean by women/girls and the fact that some people in power can't say what differentiates them from men/boys indicates a lack of understanding of the very issues we are trying to solve.

Misogyny underlies all of them. It's weird, harmful and counterproductive to say we are allowed to concentrate on some aspects of misogyny and not others.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/03/2026 10:08

It’s upside-down-world levels of absurd is what I meant, but well done for completely missing the point.

BitOutOfPractice · 08/03/2026 10:10

@potpourree where did I say you weren’t allowed to talk about this issue? I was directly addressing the OP’s question.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/03/2026 10:10

Basically, men are the most oppressed women evah. Oh yes, of course, silly me.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/03/2026 10:13

If someone says they think some men are women I don’t trust anything else they say. That’s why it’s relevant to politics. It’s a tell.

Myalternate · 08/03/2026 10:13

Chauvinistic is perhaps a more useful term to describe TransW that believe their own group is superior. They think they’re better at being women than natural women.
They’ll just have to accept they’re inferior in every way. Sad for them, but true.
Women are no longer taking a step back. We will not include men in our spaces.

Even within their own communities, some won’t accept trans masculine people because they’re accepted by women because they are women.

Misogyny is prejudice, hatred and contempt of women.

potpourree · 08/03/2026 10:13

BitOutOfPractice · 08/03/2026 10:10

@potpourree where did I say you weren’t allowed to talk about this issue? I was directly addressing the OP’s question.

I know. The first part of my post was addressed to you - the question.

The second part was a general observation aimed at anyone who thinks it's wrong to try and fix some aspects of misogyny.

SabrinaThwaite · 08/03/2026 10:21

Which is what makes me use the word obsession with regard to it. The op has obviously noticed it too.

They must have been lurking a hell of a long time to draw that conclusion. Or name changed.

BitOutOfPractice · 08/03/2026 10:27

I have never name changed. I post regularly. I have been here maybe 15 years? So what’s your point @SabrinaThwaite? (love the name by the way!)

SabrinaThwaite · 08/03/2026 10:30

BitOutOfPractice · 08/03/2026 10:27

I have never name changed. I post regularly. I have been here maybe 15 years? So what’s your point @SabrinaThwaite? (love the name by the way!)

Not you, @BitOutOfPractice (I recognise you from our shared interest!), I mean the OP.

Brefugee · 08/03/2026 10:30

Smurfetteto · 08/03/2026 06:27

Men hate me, a lot of them. Overtly, covertly.

I've never met a trans person who hates me for no reason.

I'm not trans, I'm female and binary.

I just want to know why MN puts all the debate into trans and not male and female misogynists.

citation needed

Iamnotalemming · 08/03/2026 10:30

@Smurfetteto the trans rights movement is the same as plain old misogyny because it involves putting the rights of trans identifying men above all women, whether they are comfortable with that or not. What makes it worse than old fashioned misogyny is that according to the trans rights movement, any woman who is not comfortable with sharing their single sex space with a trans identifying man is a nasty old bigot, transphobic and probably racist. You are not even allowed to complain about your discomfort.

Also, the thought that moved the dial for me was recognising that even if I was hypothetically happy to have a trans woman in the same toilets as me in a nightclub, I did not speak for all women and I could not honestly say that I would be happy to share such a space with any man in all occasions. If you let one trans identifying man (however lovely and non threatening they may be) into the ladies toilets you are letting all men (however vile and abusive and threatening they may be) into the ladies toilets. It's either single sex or it's not.

user2848502016 · 08/03/2026 10:31

FrootyCider · 08/03/2026 07:56

Safe from being insulted, safe to be themselves, safe to use spaces that they've been allowed in/been welcome in for...ever! The walking group has been going for 20ish years in some capacity, I've been going for a decade, and there's been transwomen coming to it for all that time, for example.

I really can't imagine what it would be like for someone to 'disagree' - we get on well! We did meet a TERF once. There wasn't a TW with us at the time thankfully, but a TERF came up to us at the pub, at first seemingly trying to engage in normal conversation, then starting to parrot MN speech. It was really bizarre. Like being preached at by a Mormon or something! 😂 Basically the whole pub told her to get lost.

What do you mean by voiced disagreement anyway? If someone called my friends transphobic names they'd be told that they're out of order. If someone objected to say, a TW in the walking group they'd be told 'sorry you feel that way but tough'. Like we wouldn't be mean to them but we wouldn't bend to their whims.

But you think women should bend to the whims of men?
You think it’s funny that a woman was excluded from a public place for having an opinion?
What are “transphobic names”? Is “man”
one?
Do you think it’s ok for women to be thrown out of a women only walking group because they wanted to join a women’s only walking group that didn’t have men in it? There are plenty of mixed sex walking groups, maybe ask yourself what possible reason a man would have to insist on joining a women only one?
I used to be like you, completely deluded - I’m glad I found Mumsnet and properly read some threads and some actual facts

BitOutOfPractice · 08/03/2026 10:31

Oh sorry, I assumed you meant me as you quoted me! See you in the Bull later.

SabrinaThwaite · 08/03/2026 10:32

BitOutOfPractice · 08/03/2026 10:31

Oh sorry, I assumed you meant me as you quoted me! See you in the Bull later.

No worries!

Brefugee · 08/03/2026 10:35

also OP did you REALLY have to "wah wah wah BUT WHAT ABOUT DA MENZ" on International Women's Day?

Did you really?

ClipJoint · 08/03/2026 10:49

There are many arguments one could give in response to the OP.

But I’ll just say this.

You cannot separate this issue from ‘misogyny’. It IS misogyny, It is the most extreme form of misogyny. I am sorry you can’t see that.

TiredShadows · 08/03/2026 10:51

Likely for a few reasons: the media around it tends to be quite sensationalised, which in turn sparks most of the discussions, culturally we're still quite in flux around gender so there is a wide range of opinion leading to more discussion with the media and power groups focused on the most polarised, and as others said, there are many places where the conversations had here would be immediately silenced whether because that space has a preferred view or because the whole topic is viewed as too political.

There have been in-person issues on this - many who try to organise women only spaces or events meet resistance by venues either because the venue owner's own views, contradictory information out there on the Equality Act, or because they view it as a potential safety risk to their staff if there are protests against it. That kind of thing gets people talking.

Let's stay on topic here. I'm talking about males)men, non identifying to LGBT.

Heterosexual men or men who don't identify as an acronym?

Gay men can be misogynistic. Bisexual men can be misogynistic. Asexual men can be misogynistic - I've run into all of these.
Being trans or any other gender diverse identity doesn't stop a man from bring misogynistic - I've run into these types too.
Straight guys do not have the monopoly on this - they may be the biggest group of men (this has been debated, particularly within cultures where being a bisexual man had enough drawbacks that many just identify as straight) so potentially most misogynists are straight men, but they aren't alone in being misogynists. I think it's important to discuss the misogyny within non-straight men to move away from ideas that sexual violence is about sexual attraction.

A man cannot be 'LGBT' - he can't be a lesbian, and no one can be gay and bisexual - those are two separate groups. That some people move between those identifiers as they figure themselves out doesn't change that.

LGBT started as an acronym for groups working in solidarity with each other, it was a choice done in full recognition that the groups have some things in common and also some things very different.

Watering LGBT down to a demographic, as something to 'identify' ignores all of that and dehumanizes people. When Stonewall UK chose to call gay men who had been murdered 'LGBT+ people', they were rightly torn apart for their heartlessness.

Ok, but still. Why isn't misogyny a hate crime?

Misogyny is a hate crime in some parts of the country. I've not seen much data on whether having done so has helped much, hate crime legislation in general is a bit woolly and not a solid marker of progress in any area.

Safe from being insulted, safe to be themselves, safe to use spaces that they've been allowed in/been welcome in for...ever!

I was in a group like for a while. I was pretty desperate for social spaces.

When I tried to talk to another women about a menstrual issue, it was interrupted by a trans woman discussing how they totally have periods too because mood swings. I felt insulted. I also felt concerned as it sounded like their hormone medication wasn't working well, but it wasn't safe to address that.

When I tried to talk about hot flushes, the conversation was pivoted to the issues they have with it on hormone medication. I felt I couldn't be myself.

I stopped going around the time my MIL died, I didn't have the energy, they were all aware - when I saw them six months later, having never said a word to me in the mean time, they tore me apart for my choice in reading material because they viewed the author as inappropriate. That the author was someone like me - American born, raised in an evangelical church, got out with all the risks of that - was irrelevant, to them, being in an evangelical church in the first place was enough that no one should ever read them, and everyone they knew on twitter agreed. Everything about me was made to feel unwelcome, I felt very unsafe.

I could go on - your rhetoric makes me question whether your space actually ensures women feel all the things you say you want the trans women to feel.

We did meet a TERF once.

Did they self identify as a trans-exclusionary radical feminist, or are you presuming that because on their talking points? Can you discuss what made them a radical feminist instead of any other branches of feminism?

The first time I got called a TERF, I was discussing having been violently sexually assaulted by a medical professional while pregnant and talked about how I didn't feel like a person to that professional, just a woman who needed to obey, and told using that language made me a TERF. I'm not a radical feminist - I've organised and worked with some, but my worldview doesn't line up so it would be inaccurate. Valuing single sex spaces and having concerns about the impact on the justice system and data accuracy does not a radfem make, there is more to it than that which gets erased.

EvelynBeatrice · 08/03/2026 10:53

Mumsnet isn’t a hive mind. People - as in society - have different views on things.

I have seldom seen any prejudice or concerns expressed on here about transmen or people of whatever sexual persuasion solely on account of their sexual orientation or indeed trans status.

However, many women have considerable concern and sometimes fear of male persons however they identify being in spaces where they are vulnerable. That, I’m afraid, is based on a lifetime of experience as well as the cold hard statistics. And it’s not just about safety, but perception of risk and dignity and privacy.

In my experience, many men only understand this when you ask them to imagine if they were a smaller slight man in prison. A man who is much bigger than him is his new roommate and shower buddy. He knows no harm at all of this big bloke personally, but big bloke belongs to a prison gang which is associated with violence and rape. How comfortable does he feel? And even if not his room mate, would he feel relaxed if the big bloke just showed a preference for his company, follows him into the loo etc.

Women’s protective instincts are hugely heightened when they have children. They see threats clearly and prioritise safeguarding. Therefore, it’s hardly surprising that a site that attracts mothers can be skewed to safeguarding rather than prioritising male desires.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/03/2026 10:55

ClipJoint · 08/03/2026 10:49

There are many arguments one could give in response to the OP.

But I’ll just say this.

You cannot separate this issue from ‘misogyny’. It IS misogyny, It is the most extreme form of misogyny. I am sorry you can’t see that.

This. Perfectly put.

Soontobe60 · 08/03/2026 10:56

BitOutOfPractice · 08/03/2026 10:06

How is any type of misogyny allowed to happen? How is so much violence against women and girls allowed to happen?

This isn’t the only unbelievable thing happening in the fun world of misogyny. It isn’t even, on my opinion the biggest issue (yes I know it’s important, symbolic of male entitlement etc) and yet The same old few people manage to take over every debate, discussion with the same issue. Again and agsin Which is what makes me use the word obsession with regard to it. The op has obviously noticed it too.

I’ll give a couple of examples. During the general election campaign, a discussion about, say, the Conservative’s fiscal policies. The third or fourth post would be “at least they know what a woman is” and the whole thread would then be about that. Or on style and besuty, a debate about a pair of M&S trousers, 2nd post will be about their changing room policy. There are many others. It’s just weird, this obsession here. Weird.

What is ‘weird’ is that you are insulting the women who say men are not women so keep out of our very hard won spaces by call in it an ‘obsession’.

EvelynBeatrice · 08/03/2026 11:15

If you’ve been bitten or attacked by a dog, it’s pretty normal and not obsessive to be wary of strange dogs going forward …., people respond on the basis of their experience …

FrippEnos · 08/03/2026 11:37

FrootyCider · 08/03/2026 07:56

Safe from being insulted, safe to be themselves, safe to use spaces that they've been allowed in/been welcome in for...ever! The walking group has been going for 20ish years in some capacity, I've been going for a decade, and there's been transwomen coming to it for all that time, for example.

I really can't imagine what it would be like for someone to 'disagree' - we get on well! We did meet a TERF once. There wasn't a TW with us at the time thankfully, but a TERF came up to us at the pub, at first seemingly trying to engage in normal conversation, then starting to parrot MN speech. It was really bizarre. Like being preached at by a Mormon or something! 😂 Basically the whole pub told her to get lost.

What do you mean by voiced disagreement anyway? If someone called my friends transphobic names they'd be told that they're out of order. If someone objected to say, a TW in the walking group they'd be told 'sorry you feel that way but tough'. Like we wouldn't be mean to them but we wouldn't bend to their whims.

then starting to parrot MN speech.

And the mask slips.

SabrinaThwaite · 08/03/2026 11:41

FrippEnos · 08/03/2026 11:37

then starting to parrot MN speech.

And the mask slips.

It’s certainly high on the list of ‘things that never happened’.

Shedmistress · 08/03/2026 11:41

EvelynBeatrice · 08/03/2026 11:15

If you’ve been bitten or attacked by a dog, it’s pretty normal and not obsessive to be wary of strange dogs going forward …., people respond on the basis of their experience …

And putting Cat Ears on said dogs doesn't turn them into a cat.

I am beyond fascinated by women who say 'sure Dave I mean Davina, I believe everything you say, come straight in'.