Dubai/UAE - where did you think you were?

[WhyamIinahandcartandwherearewegoing]

I’ll preface this by saying I wish the best for anyone out there, working or holidaying. I hope you are and remain safe.

but do people go there with next to no concern for where in the world it’s located? Do they pay no attention to news or the general geopolitical situation, it’s hnot exactly a secret.

are we really that dense that most people don’t look past the bling, the weather, the tax perks, the bloody influencers?

South Africans sorted out apartheid. It’s quite nauseating if you think that somehow the western countries that caused it had anything other than a tiny role in ending it. It was achieved by black South Africans.

We also caused the Taliban in Afghanistan. They had a liberal democracy until the USA and UK and others decided to start destabilizing the region to get our hands on their oil. And it will be the Afghan people who will end up resolving the mess that we made

I'm the child of a single parent myself so I can sympathise with this.

I do think Dubai is more extreme than many other countries though. It is illegal to criticise the ruling family, it is not a democracy, it has the repressive kafala system for migrants, marital rape is legal, women who sell sex and get abused can be deported or jailed if they report as selling sex is illegal...

I understand wanting an affordable destination. There are surely less extreme options though? I mean, there's sunny places within England, and the wider UK. France, Italy and Spain, too. Or how about Germany, or Lithuania? I don't see why Dubai is the only option.

I personally think that too many people don't know about how women are oppressed elsewhere in the world. Not just women - men as well.

Too many people don't care what's going on all over the world. They jump on a plane and want to go for a two week holiday - and that's fine. But when it's suggested that maybe people should not go these - people get incredibly defensive

They'll do mental gymnastics to try and justify why they holiday in places where locals live under an oppressive regime

I said it on another thread - I wouldn't go to Turkey because of their human rights records and the way the present Government have brought in new laws to justify rounding up street animals and killing them

Then you'll get someone saying - what about the way the UK treats animals (I'm aware of that and I do my best for rescues both here and abroad)

Sometimes you need to draw a line in the sand and go - I'm not going to holiday there and spend money there

And if people want to go to Dubai five times a year that's up to them. But let's not pretend that everything's rosy out there for women. It's not

There was a thread on here a couple of weeks ago where a woman and her husband were having a marriage breakdown and they were both from the UK and people were queuing up to tell her to get the hell out because if he went to police and made allegations she would be arrested

We can't have it all ways - we either care about oppression or we don't. We can't just spend our lives going - it's not too bad. Or other countries do it too. That's just trying to justify conditions where women have no or little freedom. And just because that's the way it is - doesn't mean it's right.

Not allowed to drive. Not allowed to work. Not allowed to be educated. While folk from the UK sit in a bikini and sip cocktails.

Along the same lines - do you understand that some people move there because they are taxed 60%+ here?

It's exactly the same way of thinking.

So if you at least try to be logical - you don't want government to support British citizens who don't pay taxes in the UK. This surely has to cover both groups, no?

I'm not saying we sorted it, I'm saying that by that poster's logic, people should have obeyed the apartheid laws when they visited as that was the law declared by the government.

Great post! Re not being allowed to drive, work or be educated - I don't think that applies to UAE though?

Check your history.

Afghanistan's nascent democracy was destabilised and brought down from within. It was NOT a democracy from 1973 until the Taliban

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Afghanistan

By blaming everything on the West, you take agency from non-Westerners.

Sadly yes I think some do

Seems the US strategy is to get Iranians to trust the US.

I've been low paid jobs, lots of them - I would never have been able to afford to go to Dubai if I had wanted to which I don't. People aren't arguing that you have to travel sustainably or eat organic or be completely environmentally friendly to go on holiday. We are talking about propping up an economy that opresses women

It doesn't need to be Dubai or nowhere. I think that's the point people are making. I've not been abroad for a few years - almost ten. For a lot of reasons. My last few holidays have been on the Isle of Wight.

You saying is it perfect far from it is completely under playing what women go through in these countries. It's an oppressive authoritarian regime

If you were very politically aware - you might look at going somewhere on holiday that isn't Dubai

Exactly. Most of Europe is nearer than Dubai, and treats women better. France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain etc are all options ....

Frankly I am astounded anyone believes that Dubai is a justifiable holiday destination.

The wilful ignorance that somehow it isn’t that bad, or it’s guaranteed sunshine so it’s worth it, or the modern slavery and laws make it okay to travel to is another great lesson in life that you can’t argue with stupid.

Effic is the poster wrongly claiming that American women seeking an abortion face the death penalty.

There was a military build up going on for a while, many people probably cancelled plans, many people who decided to travel anyway probably didn"t envisage Iran firing rockets at them in their hotel, or stray rockets/debris hitting it.

Pp is right though that many Trump voters partly supported him because he said no more foreign wars. Iraq was far away but many people were thinking of the neocons' involvement of US in Iraq and Afghanistan when they supported Trump's stance against foreign wars.

Yes, very odd claim to make. Too much TikTok probably ..

A lot of the bling/influencer type crowd won"t have a plan B, they won"t have a plan for how to get out of somewhere that doesn"t involve a phone app or someone else taking responsibility for their safety.

This is all air power though, it relies on the people of Iran "rising up", that could end up being the miscalculation?

I don't think people are just criticising due to influencers, if you read the thread. I see what you mean though.

Without ground forces, I do not see how that can happen.

Dubai is a bit like the line in Fun Home 'like chaos never happens if it's never seen'.

Sheikh Makhtoum has cunningly marketed his country to Westerners and ensured visible street crime is very low (not that hard if 90% of the country are expats who could get deported if they commit a crime). That doesn't mean it's safe for a woman suffering spousal DV or rape, or that she can get justice. Even less safe for poor migrant workers

What a load of absolute nonsense. I am advocating for no such thing. I’m suggesting that rather than pontificating about what is right and wrong in other countries, we STFU and deal with our own mess rather than telling everyone else what to do when our own record is so poor.

As ever, western colonialism is still rife …. you are all correct, we must continue to shine the beacon of our brilliance and munificence to all the other poor (usually Muslim) countries and invade and bomb them for their own sake and continue to point out all
of the ways they are wrong and we are right. They will be so much better for it.

I have sympathy for the people stuck there but a bit daft for anyone not to realise it's risky, both because the proximity to Iran and their horrendous laws affecting women and gay people.
I travel to my home country frequently and there is always a cheaper 'via Dubai' option but I've never taken it as I wouldn't even risk it as a stopover.

I don't understand this kind of comment.

I don't agree with going to Dubai, but plenty of intelligent people do, not just influencers. A lot of expats there are professionals.