Dubai/UAE - where did you think you were?

[WhyamIinahandcartandwherearewegoing]

I’ll preface this by saying I wish the best for anyone out there, working or holidaying. I hope you are and remain safe.

but do people go there with next to no concern for where in the world it’s located? Do they pay no attention to news or the general geopolitical situation, it’s hnot exactly a secret.

are we really that dense that most people don’t look past the bling, the weather, the tax perks, the bloody influencers?

Travel broadens the mind.
Tourism income helps local people.

These are two statements that would be agreed upon by the vast majority of reasonable people, and in fact are commonly accepted.

But yes, they are "utter bollocks." OK. You can simply pronounce that anything is utter bollocks if you want to, no matter how much sense those things actually make. The high aggression level in your delivery doesn't make it true, you know.

I get the feeling that no amount of travel would broaden your mind, so perhaps it's a good thing that you're not wasting your money trying.

I couldn't afford to go to Dubai even if I wanted to which I do not. I go to the isle of Wight for 6 days every year and I put money aside all year to go

I am also hopefully going to see more of my home country - Scotland. I don't need to sit in sunshine for a week or two weeks every year to expand my mind

As a child I went to Denmark. France. Switzerland. I went to Switzerland and Germany with school. I have been to the north and south of Ireland. The north of Scotland. Spain. Tenerife.

You might think that depriving locals of their income might not help them. But that doesn't stop the bigger picture. It doesn't

No, it doesn't stop the bigger picture. There is nothing to be done about that.

Don't be so silly. By going there you are buying into it, literally.

It stinks.

Sorry what? I was in full time work when I made the decision to stop buying clothes made in sweatshops. It had nothing to do with my income

I am poor and disabled at the moment - I had a serious accident two years ago, not sure that it's got anything to do with this thread or any posts I have made on here. You brought disability up. No idea why you would do that

Whatever. Conversation fucking over. If you think I was lying earlier on when I said I had spent the last twenty years not buying new clothes and it was because of me being poor and not anything to do with my views about sweatshops. That's on you. It has nothing to do with me.

You're the person who chose to laugh at me - when someone else said that people in Dubai should be bombed. I said nothing of the sort - ever

Ignore my posts. No one forces you to read them - and I'll do likewise.
I don't feel comfortable on this thread - because of you. Most other people apart from one who has responded to me have been able to disagree without mocking me and getting personal.

You're basically suggesting that my decision not to buy new clothes was down to poverty and not my choice - well you are wrong. Completely wrong.

Don't call me dishonest. I really don't appreciate it.

Don't assume you know everything about why some people make certain choices from some posts online - because I can assure you - you do not

What has my disability to do with anything I have posted on this thread to date?

And it's rich you are going on about my moral choices when you are sitting suggesting it's fine to holiday in Dubai where women are treated like second class citizens

Maybe take a stare into your own void before you sit laughing at me - and leave peoples disability out of things. I don't need to be reminded by someone on here who has already sat laughing at me how hard it is to have disabilities.

Well there should be. Anyway I'm out of here for a bit. I draw the line at a couple of cunty posts that have been aimed in my direction - not you incase you are wondering.

And just as an aside. The reason I mentioned that I buy second hand clothes

Was because of people shouting - you aren't ethical either - you buy clothes made in sweatshops - I was just pointing out that I don't. Or I wouldn't have mentioned it at all

Too many people trying to "gotcha" other people on this thread

Do you drive a car. Do you put your heating on! It used to be legal to rape women in the UK

Ha ha ha at you you're no better than anyone who goes to Dubai

If that's what some people think I feel sorry for you

If Dubai matters so much to people - keep going. I'm not stopping you

I honestly cease to care. This thread has got way too personal for my liking

And by the way to the person who thinks they know everything about why I buy second hand clothes -I was lucky enough to have a charity shop in my home town who sold every item of second hand clothes for 99p. Who wouldn't go there - when even cheap shops like Primark will be much dearer if being ethical matters to you

I'm not sure why you are so agitated.

First of all, my post at 18:11 wasn't quoting any other post, but you decided it's about you. I find this very funny. Something about it touched you. Suggest you re-read my posts.

Secondly, I explained, that I fully understand and sympathise with people in challenging circumstances. Again, not sure what's wrong with this. I have no idea about yours.

However, can you imagine everyone in the UK making the same life choices as you did if they have other options? so clothing industry dead, hospitality dead, economy shrinking, tax takes reducing.

Mad consumerism we have now is a complete disaster, but moving too far in the opposite direction will be equally bad.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

And ironically, I've never been to UAE and don't plan to ever go there, even though I love travelling and visited over thirty countries.

What I hate though is people gleeing at others who are stuck in very difficult situation justifying this by own high moral choices.

Of course it's OK. What I object to is the posters who suddenly decide that people who go to Dubai are BadPeopleTM and vile and deserve to have bombs dropped on them, as one pp said, just because of their choice of a holiday destination! Such black-and-white thinking is really silly. What if you have a care home worker who's really dedicated and goes above and beyond for all the people in their care, for years, and she loves her week in Dubai each year? Is she a blanket BadPersonTM as some pp have made out, calling people who go to Dubai all the names under the sun on here? That's what I object to, this demonisation, even though most Brits have travelled somewhere dodgy. Applying the standards of some on this thread, each and every one of them are BadPeopleTM! Notwithstanding that they probably drive cars and fly in planes and eat meat and have helped overpopulate the planet and probably wear and buy stuff made by low-paid workers in dodgy countries. I hate fake moralising being used to have a go at people and call them everything under the sun.

Glass houses and all that.

I haven't suddenly decided I've been very vocal for years about how sad and shameful it is to profit from slavery and abuse by holidaying in Dubai.

I get the argument re giving income to locals but otoh I think there is a case to be made re the negative publicity re laws (eg. The recent Marcus Fakana case where a British teen was jailed for having sex with another teen) was probably one of the factors behind the UAE changing this law.

The UAE in recent years HAS changed several laws, DV was criminalised for one thing. And I bet that international disapproval did figure at least a bit in that.

Re overpopulating the planet, it's fair to note that like most of Europe and several other countries, the UK has an aging population. I don't think people should be berated for overpopulating the planet if they have kids here.

The overpopulation problem is mainly Africa, for one, and that is due to women having a lower status in many places there & less say in birth control. That will eventually change, just as it has in other countries.

As to people insulting people who go there & saying they deserve the war etc , how many people on this thread have actually said that?

Why would hospitality be dead? I need to check, but I didn't think pp said she was opposed to going on any kind of holiday, including ones within the UK?

This seems an overly negative view.

Just because you can't do everything doesn't mean you should do nothing. It's the same kind of mindset as the dieter who thinks, 'I've had the bar of chocolate, the diet's ruined now, I might as well eat what I like.' Or a person who thinks, 'I don't want to read a really long book like Jane Eyre. What's the point of reading any classic lit?'

Imo any effort is better than none, one thing you do isn't negated by the things you haven't done.

I would go there if it opened up, and then when I got back, I would tell everyone what I had seen

@FloofBunny It is possible to go to North Korea but it would be pretty pointless as it’s like tourism in the former Soviet Union - you only see what the regime wants you to see and you are under surveillance at all times.
There wouldn’t be any opportunity to see the ‘real’ North Korea - it is an appalling regime and Kim Jong Un doesn’t want foreign witnesses.

I’ve just checked - apparently from March 2026 the only foreigners allowed to enter NK are Russians.

@scottishgirl69
Too many people trying to "gotcha" other people on this thread.

I see your point, but I think it is interesting to have a discussion about ethical travel - all the objections raised by posters about Dubai but also other points such mass tourism is damaging countries; how many miles is it acceptable to fly each year and should it be rationed; should there be so many tourist resorts, villas hotels etc built in countries such as Tunisia which has had severe drought.

I didn't glee at anyone. Can you not just take the hint and stop replying to me? Oh fucking dear. How dare I buy clothes from charity shops and not sweatshops eh

Ever heard of Rana Plaza? That's one reason why I don't buy sweatshop clothes.

There are enough people who buy sweatshop clothes to make up for the likes of me

And your post touched me did it? Maybe because you came on here indicating that people wanted to see people in Dubai bombed when one person said that

Notice that you skirted around my question as to why you brought disability into the equation when it has nothing to do with this argument

I didn't glee at anyone being stuck in Dubai - other people did! Can you not actually read!

Your post touched me because you were rude and made a ridiculous sweeping statement when one person made a nasty comment. Then you laughed at me. Then you brought disability into it for no reason

I didn't glee at anyone. I didn't say anyone deserved to be bombed and I have said over and over on here if people want to go to Dubai - that's up to them

You are picking on the wrong person here - and if you didn't know anything about my disability or my finances - why mention it? Why refer to me as potentially dishonest

I would have been cringing if I had casually mentioned disability to someone in the passing who actually is disabled - but you do you. Captain know everything.

You own your own shit before you start laughing at me or anyone else on here

Agitated - don't gaslight me - I won't tolerate it. And I will not tolerate someone who posts saying - if you have disabilities I will view you differently. Now you are doubling down saying if everyone did the same as me society would be in trouble

Rather than admit you were wrong

Double post in error

Agree with you.

Incidentally, Leo Hickman used to do an interesting Guardian column of ethical living.

He also wrote a good book on tourism issues, The Final Call. It was written in early 2000s but probably a lot still applies today.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Final-Call-Investigating-Really-Holidays/dp/1905811063

Agree re Soviet Union : during the Mao era, for one, several books were written saying everything was good, no Famine etc, including by people like Simone de Beauvoit and Pierre Trudeau 🙄 They were obviously shown a highly curated version.

NK guard even more fiercely as Jong Un claims to be a God. Even Mao didn't claim that, or Stalin!

Once more for the hard of hearing up the back. I only referred to me buying charity shop clothes in the first place because someone else rudely said. You don't live a 100 per cent ethical life. No I don't and I never said other at any point in this thread

Don't use disability as a way to discriminate against people or how you perceive them - disability had nothing to do with this thread until you brought it up. I hope you understand how offensive that is to someone that is actually disabled.

I had a friend go more than a decade ago and despite, or maybe because of, it being highly curated, it WAS a revealing trip… in that the veneer was so so obvious, but oh so very thin.

Everyone outside of DPRK knows it’s a charade, so it’s not like you’re getting duped. The anecdotes that friend told me really hit home how utterly monstrous the place is - from a list of approved haircuts at the barbers to their Sacred Mountain propaganda.

I would certainly be interested to visit DPRK (although for me it would be a bit like going to a zoo - I don’t want to gawp at the locals, but I agree with a PP there is something to learn that can only be learned by being in a place)

It mmmmmmay have been me that made the ethical comment. I’m sorry for offending you if it is my comment you’re referring to - I certainly wasn’t trying to accuse you of not living an ethical life, I was 1) being more general in addressing the thread and 2) attempting to highlight that some people (not specifically you or indeed any one poster on this thread) are very self righteous and pious but don’t appreciate that there are grey areas in life.

The ‘expats’ are western. The ‘migrant workers’, not so much.

British people go to Dubai because they dont want to pay any tax.
Now we have to pay to rescue them from their tax haven.