Lying brother - don’t know how to respond to this new disclosure.

[inigomontoyahwillcox]

Lying here awake as my head is all over the place.

Some of you may remember my thread a while back about how I was supporting my brother who landed on my doorstep in a mental health crisis expecting me to look after him for as long as it took (he has had depressive episodes before and decamped to my parents for over a year on more than one occasion). I connected him with our local mental health services whilst he was with us but also gave him a deadline as to how long he could stay with us (a couple of months). He eventually told some friends of mine he was going to hurt them and I took him straight to hospital where he disclosed he thought he was going to hurt my DD (16). The hospital rightly responded to this by raising a safeguarding concern.

He was admitted and eventually transported back to his hometown where he was under the psychosis team and eventually admitted to a psychiatric ward for some months where he underwent ECT. I still supported, attending his weekly ward meetings online, liaising with his medical teams, his employer, making practical arrangements, keeping his flat clean (which was a mess due to serious self neglect) and visiting in hospital (it’s a 6 hour round trip so couldn’t go often but when I could).

The safeguarding referral resulted in me being interviewed by children’s social care twice and having my fitness to keep my DD safe questioned; insinuation was that I somehow should have known my brother was a danger - which I didn’t until he disclosed it (I had still insisted to my brother that he couldn’t stay long term as it was having a negative impact on my daughter (who has ADHD and was preparing for her GCSEs) and husband (who had recently gone through his own metal health crisis), but physical danger hadn’t occurred to me). They also contacted my EXH (DDs dad) and asked if she could live with him if I “prioritised my DB’s needs” which he revelled in. They also spoke to DD’s school, and eventually DD. They were ultimately reassured that I was capable of protecting/prioritising my DD and that her and my brother would not be under the same roof again - on that basis they saw no need for any further action. It was a horrible time, with me feeling intense guilt about a) allowing DD to be put in a position of potential danger, not that I was aware at the time, and b) knowing that my brother had nobody else to turn to (parents are now very elderly) other than me for support and I said no (well, no to the support he wanted, which was to stay with us long term). I also had to have some very difficult conversations with DD, her school, my EXH. It also affected DD - only the other day she was asking again why he was going to hurt her and I explained that he was very sick and not himself - and who knows the impact it had on her exams.

He was very recently released from hospital and just this past fortnight has made a miraculous recovery - which I'm putting down to the effects of the ECT taking hold. I was so incredibly happy to see that he was doing so much better.

I got a message from him last night telling me he had made up the disclosure to hospital about hurting DD so they would take him seriously and give him some help/admit him. I don’t know what the hell to feel about this?! I suspect he’s saying this in the hope that say, “ah well in that case you can come back to ours to visit” (he used to spend a LOT of time at ours, in hindsight he was very reliant on us), of course that’s not going to happen, for a start social services would take an exceptionally dim view of this, god knows if he’s telling the truth now, or if he was telling the truth then? But if it was a lie, does he realise what the fall out his original disclosure had??? The shit I had to deal with, the shit DD had to deal with??

I’ve left him on read as I don’t know how to react to him. I’m now in a position where I feel as though I can’t be anything but nice to him about it due to the fear of him relapsing into depression if I do anything other than that. But I’m SO angry with him. I know he was sick when he said it, I’d come to terms with him saying it as I believed he wasn’t in his right mind, and actually came to see his original disclosure as his way of protecting her against himself. But now I’ve been told that he made it up, well, it seems very calculated and with no consideration of the impact it would have on DD and me. There’s no remorse in his admission - no apology, just a statement of fact.

Happy birthday in advance, OP. It sounds as though your core life is stable and could be really happy without your brother in it, and with boundaries to keep your parents from undermining you. I hope that's the well-deserved birthday present you give yourself this year, one that you will appreciate for a lifetime.

For similar reasons to you, my boundaries are shit and this has caused me enormous grief over the years. I've found that sticking up for myself always backfires because I'm just not wired up to do it properly. So nowadays I've learned the trick of damage limitation, which is avoidance. I don't feel a coward about this - it's the only thing that works for me. There is no shame in turning the focus of your care inward, in fact it is your primary responsibility to yourself.

I understand wanting to support your mum, but it sounds like you are setting up a situation where your support for her will not really do a huge amount to change her life (because she will go along with your father) but will cost you a huge mount to do so.

As with your brother, it doesn't really matter what the cause of her failure to treat you well is - you still shouldn't be putting her needs above your own or your family's. Boundaries tend to need less work to hold when people aren't physically close.

You've already recognised that it will be harder to avoid your brother. What would your father be like in his insistence you don't upset your brother if you had to actually be at their house in person tonight because, with them being close, you had yourself up as the person who checks they've eaten/taken their meds/etc.? Or would a fall or some other "emergency" you had to attend for be more likely when he wanted to punish you for something?

This may not be something to think too much about now - I suspect it's taking a huge amount of emotional effort to come to terms with changing things with your brother. But when that's settled, perhaps have more of a think about whether you should change other priorities too.

Happy birthday! 🎂 🎉🥳

Do not move them closer to you. Let your birthday present this year be looking after yourself and the family you made and chose.

Happy Birthday OP!

You've been trying so hard for so long to carry an unmanageable load. Drop it now.

Your dad can fuck off.
Your brother can fuck off.
Your mum can make her own decisions based in the knowledge that the other pair have no further claim on your time or energy.

It might be a bit lonely at first but it sounds like your dh is solid. You might even have some free time now to cultivate other relationships or interests.

firstly, HAPPY BIRTHDAY @inigomontoyahwillcox! Re your mum…she and they are all doing a number on your life!
you may see her as a victim, but she’s just as horrible as your brother and your dad.
saying that to you about a “bond you’ll never have” is just her attempt to belittle you and remind you’ll never be on their level and are just a support human to them all.
tell her she and he can use that amazing bond to support each other the.

It all sounds awful OP. It's very hard to make the initial break but social care will step up to care for those who need it and have no-one to do it. Trying to do everything yourself just makes services take longer as there is no immediate crisis.

Your mum, dad and brother have made their choices, you need to make choices for your family which prioritize you and their wellbeing.

You say you don't want your DD making the same mistakes, well let her see you not doing that from now on.

Thank you for all the birthday wishes 😁

I went to sleep last night drunk and upset. I suppose I should have never have expected anything else from my father as he is a narcissistic manipulator of the highest order, but you’re desperate for love and support from those who are supposed to love you, aren’t you? Even if time and time again you are left wanting. I was up there recently (he demands my presence to provide IT support, carry out various tasks) and laid down the law about him being unrealistic about his expectations of a house down here and mum’s increasing depression and he absolutely lost it with me saying he was going to “kill myself and it will be all your fault”. Of course he denied even saying it 20 seconds later when I called him out on his emotional blackmail (he is also a master gaslighter). I mean, I could go on all day about what that man has done over the years .

My father is an academic (was an assoc. professor, went to/worked at Cambridge, knew Stephen Hawking well etc etc) and my brother followed in his footsteps in many ways. He is now a government scientist. I’ve been the one liaising with his boss this last year he’s been off, sorting out his fit notes, pulling strings in the background (friends in high places and all that) to secure his job. The call from my father last night to demand I didn’t do anything at all to jeopardise my brother’s recovery was mainly because he must not loose his job. I had him on speaker so DH heard everything, his jaw was on the floor with the things he said. I later used the analogy of when a boy is accused of sexual assault (usually in the US) and the police or judge say “we’re not going to pursue justice as it will jeopardise the boy’s glittering future”. Melodramatic maybe, but that’s what it reminded me of; my need to be treated with the most basic levels of kindness, understanding etc. are being thrown under the bus to preserve brother’s wellbeing and future.

All the while I’ve been jeopardising my own employment by setting myself on fire caring for my brother, them and my family (the latter of course being my responsibility), leaving not much time or headspace to focus on my own job - but then again, I’m only a lowly Foodbank director (please refer to my earlier post about me being totally outing!).

I’ve been the one liaising with his boss this last year he’s been off, sorting out his fit notes, pulling strings in the background (friends in high places and all that) to secure his job.

Just stop now. Cut the rope and leave them all to it.

They're really not that special. I know Oxbridge academics and govt scientists. Smart people yes, but academic-smart people are ten a penny. (Associate prof is not a proper professor by the way, it's what we used to call senior lecturer.) And knowing Stephen Hawking is not the same as being Stephen Hawking.

Given your brother's mental state it's unlikely he'll be able to hold down a job much longer. It shouldn't be down to string-pulling, that is unfair on his colleagues, so it's not just you who's being sacrificed to this focus on your brother.

Your job as a foodbank director is important and I'll bet you're good at it. I couldn't do it. Lowly my arse. Poorly paid, unrecognised, maybe. And maybe there is more you could do if you gave yourself the space to do it. But don't think they or their jobs are more importan than yours. They're not.

It's time to stop holding them up at your expense. Now they have to stand or fall on their own feet. What have they done to hold you up, to facilitate your strengths and help you make your unique contribution and mark on the world?

OP, happy birthday!

Stop trying to save your brother's job, stop now, never contact his boss again. Please. He might or might not be able to return to it, but it is not your responsibility either way.

Thank you for your work with foodbanks, it's hugely valuable to many people and you are saving health and lives by doing it.

Exactly. My brother used to work at Cambridge. So what 🤷‍♀️

Yes, I’m absolutely withdrawing from supporting my brother. But then again I’m of no use anymore to him because he’s now suddenly recovered and capable of managing his own affairs. Funny he should throw the bombshell of him lying about DD once he no longer needed me 🤔

True. S’pose I was making the point that I’m deemed as inferior insofar as my academic achievements - which is so very important to him.

Your father probably sees the things that are "like him" as important. Your father is male, so is your brother. He has an academic job, so does your brother. Narcissism.

Happy Birthday ! The best present you can give yourself is freedom from your (birth) family. An extended period of no contact so that you can concentrate on you, DH and DD.

Happy birthday! Hope you’re off for a nice dinner somewhere. Even a bag of chippy chips! Just do something for yourself today.
Now it’s time to drop the rope. Life life for you and your family. Your husband and daughter sound great (as do you!) X

Chippy chips sound amazing - lots of salt and vinegar.

I'm seeing friends for coffee later - may treat myself to some cake too. I will vent to them - one of them is one half of of the couple who my brother said he was going to hurt/kill, so she will have some strong opinions on his recent revelations I am sure.

From everything you've said, I'm not even sure it was a lie, it wouldn't surprise me if he'd had those feelings, even if he knew he would never act on them.

Your dad wants everything to go back to the way it was, you being at their beck and call, and you being there to facilitate your brother's life. They all knows this issue with SS is going to get in the way of that, so instead of dealing with it, they are in the steps of pretending it wasn't a big deal (him saying it was lie anyway), so it can be swept under the rug, I'm sure it's not the first time that's happened.

You really need to stop seeing your mum as a victim in this, she has made choices in her life, she continues to make choices and she is complicit in manipulating you in her own way.

We never stop seeking our parents approval, I had the same with my dad, but the sense of relief I felt when I finally cut off contact with him as an adult was huge and actually took me by surprise, I never looked back.

I think you need a break from them all to put it all in perspective.

You sound like a lovely person being made the scapegoat for family issues which are insoluble. A couple of 'themes' ring out from your posts.

1. Stop agonising over your brother's motivations. It doesn't matter why he says what he says. He was/is very mentally unwell so he can't know himself if he meant it in that moment he threatened dd. (It may help him to live with the cognitive dissonance, shame and distress that he's dealing with now to believe that he said it to get help). Stop agonising over his response to your email. Why are you ASKING to be blamed for any decline in his behaviour?
2. Your parents moving closer to you has disaster written all over it. Why are you pushing for this move? You father clearly doesnt want to come so it will all be your fault when they are unhappy in their new home. It might have seemed like a sensible solution but the situation has changed now. Bringing your parents closer puts you and your DD in closer purlieu of your brother and at risk. Cognitive decline only goes one way in old age and moving house tends to make the decline steeper. It will not make your dad less controlling, it will not make your mum happier and it will not make you and DD safer from your family's emotional abuse. Rethink the plan and work out how best to support your mum where she is now until the time comes when your dad no longer has capacity to dictate.

Stay strong

Happy birthday OP. Please cut contact with these horrible people and enjoy your life from now on. 💐

All of this

To be honest l do query a lot of aspects of your brothers mental illness. He definitely has personality disorder but the rest of it feels very performative to me and mainly for secondary gain. Yet another reason to keep him at arms length.

Does it matter if he's telling the truth? If he was telling the truth back then and is now lying, he's unreliable and you need to protect your DD. If he was lying then and now telling the truth, he's unreliable and you need to protect your DD.

However, people don't get sectioned and have ECT for one thing, so I think on balance he was probably very unwell, even if he now says he wasn't.

I remember your situation. Of your birth family, you are the only worthwhile one. Your parents and brother are just using you. Step away. Your parents can stay where they are till at the point of moving into residential care. They have let you down and you owe them nothing. Send the suggested message about putting off their visit. Why have them there manipulating you into being your brother's lackey again?

As for your brother, I wouldn't reply, or I would send the first short message someone suggested that as all this triggered safeguarding concerns, he still can't come to the house. He wants you using your energy on him. Don't.

Who cares what these horrible people think? Yes they are your family but you are under zero obligation to accept their twisted version of the truth they have mangled together. I would be raging with ALL of them. Your DD is what matters here - the rest of them can get in the bin.

this forever - tell those unpleasant relatives to piss right off