Lying brother - don’t know how to respond to this new disclosure.

[inigomontoyahwillcox]

Lying here awake as my head is all over the place.

Some of you may remember my thread a while back about how I was supporting my brother who landed on my doorstep in a mental health crisis expecting me to look after him for as long as it took (he has had depressive episodes before and decamped to my parents for over a year on more than one occasion). I connected him with our local mental health services whilst he was with us but also gave him a deadline as to how long he could stay with us (a couple of months). He eventually told some friends of mine he was going to hurt them and I took him straight to hospital where he disclosed he thought he was going to hurt my DD (16). The hospital rightly responded to this by raising a safeguarding concern.

He was admitted and eventually transported back to his hometown where he was under the psychosis team and eventually admitted to a psychiatric ward for some months where he underwent ECT. I still supported, attending his weekly ward meetings online, liaising with his medical teams, his employer, making practical arrangements, keeping his flat clean (which was a mess due to serious self neglect) and visiting in hospital (it’s a 6 hour round trip so couldn’t go often but when I could).

The safeguarding referral resulted in me being interviewed by children’s social care twice and having my fitness to keep my DD safe questioned; insinuation was that I somehow should have known my brother was a danger - which I didn’t until he disclosed it (I had still insisted to my brother that he couldn’t stay long term as it was having a negative impact on my daughter (who has ADHD and was preparing for her GCSEs) and husband (who had recently gone through his own metal health crisis), but physical danger hadn’t occurred to me). They also contacted my EXH (DDs dad) and asked if she could live with him if I “prioritised my DB’s needs” which he revelled in. They also spoke to DD’s school, and eventually DD. They were ultimately reassured that I was capable of protecting/prioritising my DD and that her and my brother would not be under the same roof again - on that basis they saw no need for any further action. It was a horrible time, with me feeling intense guilt about a) allowing DD to be put in a position of potential danger, not that I was aware at the time, and b) knowing that my brother had nobody else to turn to (parents are now very elderly) other than me for support and I said no (well, no to the support he wanted, which was to stay with us long term). I also had to have some very difficult conversations with DD, her school, my EXH. It also affected DD - only the other day she was asking again why he was going to hurt her and I explained that he was very sick and not himself - and who knows the impact it had on her exams.

He was very recently released from hospital and just this past fortnight has made a miraculous recovery - which I'm putting down to the effects of the ECT taking hold. I was so incredibly happy to see that he was doing so much better.

I got a message from him last night telling me he had made up the disclosure to hospital about hurting DD so they would take him seriously and give him some help/admit him. I don’t know what the hell to feel about this?! I suspect he’s saying this in the hope that say, “ah well in that case you can come back to ours to visit” (he used to spend a LOT of time at ours, in hindsight he was very reliant on us), of course that’s not going to happen, for a start social services would take an exceptionally dim view of this, god knows if he’s telling the truth now, or if he was telling the truth then? But if it was a lie, does he realise what the fall out his original disclosure had??? The shit I had to deal with, the shit DD had to deal with??

I’ve left him on read as I don’t know how to react to him. I’m now in a position where I feel as though I can’t be anything but nice to him about it due to the fear of him relapsing into depression if I do anything other than that. But I’m SO angry with him. I know he was sick when he said it, I’d come to terms with him saying it as I believed he wasn’t in his right mind, and actually came to see his original disclosure as his way of protecting her against himself. But now I’ve been told that he made it up, well, it seems very calculated and with no consideration of the impact it would have on DD and me. There’s no remorse in his admission - no apology, just a statement of fact.

I'm concerned about this plan for your parents to live closer to you, then your DB will probably move in with them and the best case scenario is you end up looking after them all. The worst is that SS come knocking again.

If you can please step back from it all. I've always helped and supported and I've found out that people seemed to think this meant they could treat me anyway they liked because to them I wasn't important.

Do you have a social worker who you get on quite well with at all? It feels to me like you could do with some advice from SS in terms of suggestions for resources to help DD be resilient, and if you can possibly shield against him getting access to you or your DD via your parents in their new home.

Have you got power of attorney set up with your parents? Because if not, now, while they have capacity is the time to do it. xxx

One more thing from me, in the form of a reminder that mentally ill people can also be manipulative and abusive people, and just because they are ill or have been ill in the past doesn't mean that we have to tolerate manipulation or abuse.

I do have power of attorney set up, although mum's health is taking an age to go through (the other 3 for the both of them are sorted).

Although I think it is a moot point now as I suspect they will be changing them at the earliest opportunity; I spoke to my mother earlier and told her the situation as I wanted her to be aware that my brother may need some support/may deteriorate after I send him my response and let her know the details of the situation. I just had a call from my dad "ordering" me not to upset my brother as his recovery can't be derailed ... and I lost my shit with him and hung up.

Now getting calls and messages from my mum about how I "seem a little upset" and how she "hopes we're still coming up next week". I am not answering.

It's my birthday tomorrow - happy fucking birthday to me!

Don’t go up if you don’t want to - put yourself first!

And a truly happy birthday for you tomorrow

The stuff I'm saying on here is so outing - am past caring at this stage TBH.

It's ok for you to take some time away from your brother and parents if you need to.

What have you said-are you happy with your draft?

If you're able to take a break from them all, do something nice for yourself for a change. You've put their needs ahead of yours for so long so expect some guilt and prepare in advance when the "I should" thoughts arrive. Maybe decide that you won't visit or call for a certain amount of time and that you will do something for yourself that requires focused strength. Watch films / go for walks / eat nice food with your immediate family and friends.

Realistically, you can't fix any of their problems and you can only help if they are pulling in the same direction as you. You need to drop the rope and remember that they are the architects of their own lives.

Maybe chat to someone who knows you in real life or write things down. Try to challenge any thoughts like "I should". Write down any thoughts that keep popping up, move them from your mind to paper.

I hope you have a relaxing birthday.

I think so, DH read it and suggested I change a few things so I don't feel like an awful person later on and self flagellate but still get my point across.

I think sky high boundaries are the only way. Your brother sounds like a total nightmare, your parents aren’t that far behind either. Are you sure you want them moving closer? Them being at a distance with help to limit their interference and bad behaviour. I think a message is a very good idea, to try to reduce the likelihood that “he didn’t know how you felt about it” and feigning ignorance

Sorry about the timing of this and hope you hear something nice planned for your birthday

I don't want my father anywhere near me, but I want to be able to support my mum (even though she has told me that her and I will "never have the same bond as she has with my brother") because I can see what a number my father has done on her life. And they come as a pair.

even though she has told me that her and I will "never have the same bond as she has with my brother"

That's an awful thing for a parent to say, I'm so sorry.

Its hard but try not to JADE, even with yourself. That's Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. Keep your statements to your brother or parents very short and pithy.

No I am not able to X anymore.
No We won’t be doing that.

The more reasons you give for your decisions the more negotiating power you give them. If you bring up time as a cost they will show you that you do have tome. If you plead money as a cost they will argue that or offer it. Even if you just state the truth: DB hurt my family snd nearly tore us apart they will argue the point and say “oh that was then and he’s better now” or “you are exaggerating.”

Don’t let them get into an argument with you. Better to stake out an utterly intransigent position and accept the accusation that you are an absolute bitch than get sucked into managing their dysfunction.

I don't think you should send your letter to be honest.

Not because they don't deserve to know exactly what you think, but ultimately what will it achieve? He won't ever apologise for everything he has put you through, he won't acknowledge everything you have done for him, and he will never accept his wrongdoing, he will never treat you the way you deserve to be treated.

Your parents will always side with him, end of.

I think the only person you are going to hurt here is yourself, you WILL become the bad guy in all this, when all you've ever done is take care of everyone, you don't need to make a grand gesture or explain all your reasonings in depths to be able to just step away from it all completely. I think a letter would be a good idea, but only once you've sat with it for a few days, are feeling less furious at the situation, and have decided what you want to do going forward.

Just step away, give yourself a bit of space from them and then decide what you want your future to look like, I'd suggest a good heart to heart with DH too, he probably feels he has had to go along with what your family want to, so it's time to move forward as a family on your own with strict boundaries in place.

Yes, I’ve come to the conclusion that I will be labelled as a bitch, and that that will be the narrative that’s spun to anyone who asks (nasty sister is mean to poor poor sick brother). But over the last hour or so (which coincides with when DH handed me a glass of wine) I’m finding that more and more of an attractive prospect.

In person when he mentioned the cleaning, you could have said something like “Oi you cheeky git, me and DP spent 4 hours cleaning your flat, do we get any of this praise you’re dishing out?

Re: what he said about your DD, I don’t think you should text a reply. To what end? He’s a mental person and will have a mental response. Maybe in person you can work with the mood and convey how serious and damaging that was, but a long text, angry or reasonable, is only going to draw you back into a load of shit with him.

I think your brother has more agency than you're giving him credit for, he's taking you completely for granted, he's decided that your role is to support him, you don't even rate thanks for all you do for him.

If he was worried that he could have hurt your DD, or just made it up at the time to exaggerate his condition, he should be horrified now that he felt that way, and try to reassure you that it will never happen again, not just brush it off as he just made it up, no big deal, now what can you do for him?

My brother has a personality disorder which has been getting worse, can't keep a job, no friends, demanding that I cut off my older brother who he dislikes.

I had to accept that he just isn't the brother I had anymore, and focus on how his behaviour effects me, my children and the rest of my family. I can't do anything to help my brother get better, so I'm NC with him now, and my life is much calmer.

I think he's left you no option but to go NC with him, he's threathened your daughter, social services are involved, he has crossed the line. Whether he meant it or not, the result is the same - social services see him as a danger to your family, he can't come back from this.

My mum was really shocked when I went NC with my brother, tried to guilt trip me, but I didn't shift, even though it meant I missed out on some family events, as I would not have my kids in the same room as him. Your Dad seems to be taking the same tack - I think you need to just keep repeating that as he made threats to harm your daughter, and social services are monitoring you all now, you can't see him. I found just keeping it simple with my DM when I told her I wouldn't be dealing with my brother again was best, no going into detail, or discussing things in the past.

I think you should rethink your plan to have your parents live very near you - your Dad sounds toxic, and you can't save your Mum from him, she has chosen to stay with him, and to live the life she has. If they do move nearer to you, I think they need to be in a neighbouring town, so you and your daughter aren't bumping into your brother or your Dad on a regular basis, you really don't want them to be in walking distance.

You can't save your mum or your brother, and you're spending so much time supporting them, with 500km round trips every weekend, that it must be exhausting for you, and very hard on your own family.

Would you consider counselling to help you to reduce this need to serve your birth family, as you are sacrificing yourself for people who don't appreciate you or what you're doing.

Happy birthday for too, I hope you have a lovely day with your husband and daughter.

I mean this with kindness, but you calling your mum to let her know the situation illustrates how enmeshed you all are. There’s really no need to involve your parents in this, just deal with it as you see fit. Especially given how poorly your parents treat you. You deserve so much better!

I really hope your parents don’t end up moving closer to you, you deserve peace.

Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.

At the moment, you are prioritising looking after everyone except yourself. Your brother absolutely does not warrant any contact from you whatsoever, especially not after what he said regarding lying about wanting to harm your dd. Even taking his mental health into account, that is a despicable thing to say and genuinely unforgivable.

And, to be honest, both of your parents sound utterly toxic and don't deserve anything from you either. You will be making a monumental rod for your own back by moving them anywhere near you.

Think about this: who is most important to you? Your dc right? And who is the most important person in their life? Yes, you are. You need to stop putting your brother and your parents above your own physical and mental wellbeing, and start looking after yourself. Your dc needs you far more than anyone else, so by putting yourself first you are also putting them first too.

Step back
He is not in the driving seat. Don't jump to answer like you are 17 and he is your first boyfriend.

Give yourself the best birthday present OP

Tell your parents that you aren't in the best place for a visit next week, let's look at something in the Spring

And just block, or at least archive - no notifications, any messages you have from them all.

DD has school and you need a break from them.

This will all still be circling the drain in 2/3 weeks.

And you know what, let dad stay there and he can help not derail brother. It's not your responsibility, neither are they, H and D are yours the family you choose.

I hope that you don’t mind me adding an opinion. I think that you should reply to his message stating very clearly that he can never come to your home, the reason for this is to ensure that you have this response to show to social services if needed.

Please do not move your parents close to you, he will be there in no time and it will become an utter nightmare for you.
I had a similar situation for nearly 20 years, in the end it was interference in my family finances that led to really complicated problems that was the very last straw for me. To the absolute disbelief of everyone who had treated me as a resource to be used relentlessly for years I walked away from it all. I cannot tell you how much better my life is.

Just leave them to their f*cked up mess.

💐