Thread 42 Starmer : Du drikker en kop te, og så tænker du lidt over alting

[DuncinToffee]

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5474213-thread-41-starmer-alban-arthan-the-returning-of-the-light?page=40

This is a prime example of a pro Reform article on the back of the withdrawal of legal immunity to ex army accused of committing crimes in Northern Ireland.

If only the Iraqi Historical Allegations Team hadn't operated under the Tory Government, taking its number of cases in 2010 from less than 100 to almost 2500....
With just ONE prosecution..... & even that was the lawyer who falsely made almost all the allegations.

Maybe ask why this team was allowed to operate for over 7 years with zero results?

I'm afraid rightly or wrongly this issue is a sore point with quite a few veterans and is one reason why some are of the opinion they would never ever recommend a career in the forces, especially the Army, to their offspring or others....it's become the subject of serious discussion for some time now.

It's not a case of people who served expecting to have automatic immunity or almost literally a get out of jail card, but OTOH there's a perception that there's increasing risk of being dragged into a court room years/decades after an event on the flimisest of evidence and vague memories.

Rumours are some chambers have specialised in this and have done well out of public funds, and it's not just a stick the Labour Party or our current PM with.

Could well all be rowlocks but a lot of folks are very angry about it.....

The article is clearly aimed at Starmer

I know it is..perhaps unfairly, perhaps with reason.

Given the fact that UK involvement in Iraq wasn't needed or wanted, it must be a bit galling now to be put before a court about it.

Just for interest, how is the US prosecuting it's troops over Iraq ?

Could you perhaps expand on that?

Not really.

What I would say is it might be a good thing if the public become aware of how some in the legal profession have behaved over supposedly historic war crimes, and the whole industry it appears to have spawned.

@SerendipityJane

Given the fact that UK involvement in Iraq wasn't needed or wanted, it must be a bit galling now to be put before a court about it.

Oh it's more than galling for some...

As I said upthread I'm not advocating HM Forces should get immunity but OTOH when a system gives an opportunity for the likes of Phil Shiner to behave the way he did there's a problem.

Just for interest, how is the US prosecuting it's troops over Iraq ?

Indeed, I think that's the other extreme, and that's not great either.

I don't like this ongoing attempt to try and demonise lawful activities ... seems to be a theme.

Is there an expectation that lawyers should swerve some cases because they aren't popular ?

Is there any fuss in the Telegraph about this, I wonder?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clympg8z56yo#:~:text=The%20Public%20Prosecution%20Service%20(PPS,the%20events%20of%20Bloody%20Sunday.

https://centreformilitaryjustice.org.uk/veterans-who-served-in-northern-ireland-must-be-both-bound-by-and-protected-by-the-law-calling-for-immunity-for-them-is-a-terrible-mistake/

The central consensus seems to be that this is no witch hunt.

That's fair enough, but AFAIK the legislation mentioned there is NI specific.

Those involved in recent conflicts still have concerns.

ETA that the Shiner debacle hardly installed a lot of confidence in the legal process amongst those that served in Iraq, but at least he got caught.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c993nlken18o

No. The BBC reports on Bloody Sunday are excellent.

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/news/2026/01/27/reform-uk-play-on-fears/
Misinformation and lies: Reform UK play on fears of elderly veterans to get elected

Oh don't worry, despite the commonly believed sterotype most veterans aren't daft, they hate the likes of Tommy Two names, many aren't ever going to vote Reform and they'll almost all be cynical enough to recognise a politician leaping on a bandwagon when they see one..

I sense some here feel this is a new issue stirred up by the DT today or Farage but there have been grumbles and concerns about it for years if not decades.

And yet… they’ve reported Labour to the police for their X Post about Matt Goodwin because it’s misleading and contravenes rules about telling the truth. Irony is dead. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/reform-reports-labour-police-over-33318906

Most military acquaintances of mine are a little insulted that people assume they would be drawn to reform.

But than as someone whose birthday cake is a fire hazard in 3 counties, I am rather irritated when people assume I should also be a Farage fan.

Veterans might not be daft, plenty of other people are.

That’s the crux of it is t it.

some people won’t listen to those in the know and value their opinion. They’ll jump on a bandwagon of the latest headlines and fight a cause they know nothing about - causing damage

It’s going to be a loooong, bloody campaign, isn’t it?

It's still January and the other candidates haven't been announced yet.

At most it's 4 weeks.

Fuck. Is it still only January?

Can I report a thread for being disingenuous?

It is. Saturday it ends. I know!