Have parents given up parenting

[Dearparents]

So I was just watching some news.
And apparently their is a rise in reception school children, that 1 in 4 children are not potty trained ,can't eat or drink independently and try to swipe pages in books.

Some parents are saying it's down to the teachers to teach these thing's.

Most say it's because their child has some sort of SEN.

It got me thinking of a family member that has 3 kids 3/4 and 5 that are all in nappies and sippy cups and all glued to a screens.
The 4 and 5 year old dont go to school as teachers said they have to be potty trained first.
I said to said family member the teacher is right, it's your job to parent ther job is to teach.
But im wrong apparently because her kids all have SEN.
I just see 3 normal kids that have not been taught the basics.

Now i do understand some children are unwell and can not do these things.

But im talking about kids that can but parents are playing on the sen to back out of parenting the basic things.
Am I wrong about it?

I often think this but top scared to say ot out loud as don't want to be accused of discrimination!

I actually remember some kids wetting themselves; I started nursery at 3 in the late 80s. I remember one little girl sitting there wet for the whole afternoon, because she was scared to tell the teacher. It's always been there.

'As a parent of an autistic toddler (who is high functioning), I find it interesting as children in the 90s were also aspergers/autistic and manged to get toilet trained/dressed/school ready. Yes, it can be an absolute battle to get them ready, but I think it is solvable.'

Absolutely yes @fucketyfucketyfuckerty . You don't need to go back that far either. My 18 yr old didn't have access to a smart phone or tablet as a pre schooler. He is also high functioning autism but was a difficult young child with sensory needs. I work with kids now and there is an acceptance that they need screens to regulate. There is a part of me that's envious. There were so many experiences that went wrong for us as DS kicked off that we could have managed with access to a screen, so I understand why they are handy but absolutely not necessary. I had to work my ass off to get ds to go to a cafe, for example. Same place at the same time every week, initially in the queue then leaving before I got served. Then getting served and sitting for 20 seconds. Then sitting for 2 minutes. Building and building every time using engaging toys or items until we got to 15 minutes. It took weeks and weeks. Same with barber, supermarket etc. Hours and hours of prep for each new place. Getting dressed needed to be broken down with reverse sequencing, 3 steps for putting on underwear or 5 steps for trousers, or whatever was needed. Checklists as we went. I'd do step 1 to 4 and he would learn 5, then he would do 4 and 5, then 3 etc until he could do this one thing that a NT child could do instinctively. These are just examples but there are a million others. He started school with the same independence skills as his class mates, I know of course if his SEN had been more pronounced this wouldn't be possible so I'm absolutely not comparing there, I'm only comparing if he was a toddler today and how different (and easier) it would be.

Schools cannot refuse to take a child who is in nappies/pull ups, and most teaching assistant jobs have the possibility of intimate care in the job description, under 'duties' eg
"- Attending to the pupils personal needs, and implementing related personal programmes, including social, health, physical, hygiene which may include intimate care, first aid and welfare matters"

When mine were small, they had to be toilet trained to attend preschool at age 3. It’s interesting how things have changed. Mine are all in their twenties so it’s not that long ago!

The necessity of having two working parents plus working grandparents and the closure of the Sure Start centres will have had a knock-on effect

Is it as bad as it's made out to be? I know late trainers but none at 4/5 untrained unless disabled 🤷‍♀️

This pretty much sums it up. I have an autistic/adhd child. It was obvious at 14 month's old. He potty trained at 2 years 2 months. It was blooming hard work and not always possible for all autistic kids. He is now a teenager and I am witnessing a huge change in parents. There are lots of kids i meet shoved on ipads and phones from a baby. They are addicted by 4 with their own phones by 8 they lack social skills, have development issues and struggle immensely. The parents then say they are neurodivergent. They are not in most cases. They are addicts who have not developed any skills except swiping. Its so sad to witness.

Just because some toilet train their autistic kids at two doesn't mean it is okay to judge those whose autistic children might not be ready before school.

If a child can be labelled as neurodivergent then they don't have to address the causes of the child's dysregulation.

I work for a large organisation that recruits over 1,000 new starters a year. In the last 5 years we have seen young people in their first or second job without social skills- saying good morning, apologising if they bump into people, holding a door if someone is coming through right behind them; or organisational skills - being on time, wearing the provided clothing according to the rules, seeing someone having difficulty e.g. getting a buggy up a couple of steps, opening a door whilst cart a box and not stepping in to help and resenting even being asked.

Many of them (60-70%) do not understand the social construct of employment- I pay you but that means you have to do the job you are paid for. Naturally we make reasonable adjustments for neurodiversity, mental or physical health problems but this is more widespread, some days it feels like we are the first people ever to have said no to them.

Speaking to friends and colleagues who work elsewhere this is not an issue that is specific to my employer- is this also a consequence of a failure to parent?

Yes or 2.5 to go to playgroup

True I have three autistic children to varying degrees only one potty trained at two the other was bang on three and just after three they all got it at a reasonable age but my goodness it was a trial 😳 I was fortunate to have a supportive nursery with number three and a very good washing machine but it was more difficult because I was toilet training him around nursery the other two I was home for and it didn't take that long (longer than their peers but still)

Do you have children? Have any of them ever been in hospital? It can be incredibly stressful and upsetting and to judge parents in that situation is shitty. I remember not being able to think straight, I was so tired, worried about my other children etc. I presume you’re a doctor or nurse. Just wow.

So many rules can go out of the window when you have a child in hospital. Screen time rules were non existent when my son was in hospital.

Exactly. Nice to know doctors/nurses/staff are judging.

Actually I have a couple of friends who are nurses and they would never judge because they realise how stressful it can be and they’re also nice people.

Some people really should have chosen a different career path.

Can I ask, approx 1 in 4 children are not toilet trained, use cutlery etc by the time they reach school.

This did not used to happen in such high numbers. Why?

While I agree that diagnosis is better and understanding of SEN has improved, I cannot see why now there are so very many children sent to school not ready than there were 30 years ago. Are 1 in 4 children in the UK SEN now? Has there been an increase? Why are so many children SEN if that is the case? Or is the amount of children with SEN roughly the same, just not diagnosed before? But their parents still, by and large, manage to get them school ready regardless? Or, are parents lacking in skills to parent in larger numbers now?

Perhaps you have the answer as to why?

The problem is there's now a new generation of parents who have grown up with mobile phones/screens and for them it's a normal part of life. I think it's an absolute disaster for some of their children.

I think much of it will come down to both parents being at work full time, disposable nappies being easy and it being more common to listen to children rather than forcing them. I remember someone I worked with struggling to potty train her child, she was desperate for advice but couldn’t get an appointment either her health visitor for month so a lack of/cuts in resources must play a role too.

One of mine wasnt potty trained till reception, he has significant SEN needs.
My youngest was trained in nursery and also has autism but its high functioning autism.

Depends on the child you can’t judge boardly.
I must say both knew what books were though!!

My DC was potty trained from 2 and never wet himself. He did however have an aversion to number 2s which carried on until 4.5. He would withhold and it would leak all the time. He’s not SEN and it was psychological (cycle of it being so long that it hurt so poop = pain) and it took a long time to fix. We were fortunate we could afford private help but it became clear through research just how common it is. We couldn’t do the movicol treatments fully because of nursery then school (they don’t like you to do it as it does cause frequent soiling). It leads to the bowel physically expanding which means the child doesn’t feel the need to go for days and so the cycle is really hard to break. I have seen countless threads on this on MN alone.

It’s easy to judge when you’re not the one scrubbing shit off pants for two years.

Yep, lots of reasons. The person I was replying to was on about SEN and what age.

I've heard 'reasons' before that nappies are more comfy, parents at work, these are not valid reasons not to potty train, use cutlery, read books by the time they are due for school. Seriously, if cannot do the basics in parenting while working (and I agree, it's bloody hard keeping a roof over heads now), then perhaps people should think long and hard about having children at all. They are not the responsibility of the state to teach them how to toilet etc, it's the parents.

Perhaps your friend could've googled ideas? It's all there even if one to one state help wasn't.

I don't think any judgement is for people who struggle and glad your lad is doing much better. But something has changed, having so so many children now not school ready. Surely they are not all struggling or SEN? If they are, there needs to be a major investigation as to why this is happening, so children can be protected better.

She did google, obviously, and also spoke to other parents but wasn’t getting anywhere, so would have liked advice from a professional sooner. As it turned out her child had some additional needs which accounted for the potty training difficulties.

Hope she has the support now if her little one has addition needs, not just to do with potty training.

I'd want to know the definition of toilet trained that is used when they are saying a child isn't toilet trained. Are we talking about children who are still in nappies full time and are completely clueless when it comes to toileting or are we talking about a child who arrives in underwear and needs the occasional assistance to change themselves after an accident which stops by Christmas of Reception?

I also think it isn't really comparable with 30+ years ago as more special schools existed and schools were legally allowed to refuse children who weren't toilet trained so of course it looks completely different now as inclusion is encouraged, schools are not allowed to discriminate and less special school places are available which leaves some children in mainstream who can't cope.

Are some children not ready for school due to inefficient parenting? Of course but my point will always go back to at 4 (and some children have only just turned 4) it can be impossible to tell when they are just starting school which is why I'm not a fan of ''except SEND children, of course'' like they can always be easily picked out.