Have parents given up parenting

[Dearparents]

So I was just watching some news.
And apparently their is a rise in reception school children, that 1 in 4 children are not potty trained ,can't eat or drink independently and try to swipe pages in books.

Some parents are saying it's down to the teachers to teach these thing's.

Most say it's because their child has some sort of SEN.

It got me thinking of a family member that has 3 kids 3/4 and 5 that are all in nappies and sippy cups and all glued to a screens.
The 4 and 5 year old dont go to school as teachers said they have to be potty trained first.
I said to said family member the teacher is right, it's your job to parent ther job is to teach.
But im wrong apparently because her kids all have SEN.
I just see 3 normal kids that have not been taught the basics.

Now i do understand some children are unwell and can not do these things.

But im talking about kids that can but parents are playing on the sen to back out of parenting the basic things.
Am I wrong about it?

With knowing the family you’re referring to, it’s impossible to say anything useful. There are crap parents who can’t be arsed. There are children with SEN who learn at a different pace/won’t attain certain skills, and their parents who have to put up with the additional strain of being judged as lazy and crap. There are families with other major stressors, parents with learning needs or disabilities of their own, which their judgemental neighbours generally won’t be privy to.

On balance, it’s probably more reasonable and compassionate not to condemn other parents when you haven’t walked a mile in their shoes.

I think it is a form of abuse to not potty train a child or help them to eat using cutlery. Assuming they actually are able to do those things given the opportunity and not SEN.
It's not lazy really as surely it's more hassle to do nappy changes? Not to mention expensive.

In general I think expectations of parents are far higher now.

The only children I know that aren’t potty trained at 5 and older have some quite severe additional needs. I think it’s probably best not to judge.

In general I think expectations of parents are far higher now
How? From the perspective of potty training, feeding for themselves etc...expectations are much lower.

I think the problem as two fold. On one hand, parents are too focus on making things easier in the instant and not enough thinking about the implication of their choices at a later stage. Child cries because they don't want to go on the potty, well it's easier to put them in a nappy to solve the issue....now. sometimes things happen naturally so this approach makes sense, but in many other instances, it gradually makes the situation worse and parents are then helpless dealing with it.

On the other hand, the newest generation is very tuned onto children needs, wants, care coming first that again, parents don't ever want to do anything that upset them, even if it is better for them in the longer run.

For instance, shouting is now seen as a crime that will inevitably cause trauma. Shouting has been a mean of disciplined used for many years. Shouting when one's face becomes irate and the kids are petrified is abuse. Shouting to make your point, reset where the authority lies and make things happen cam be very appropriate in some situations.

Parents defi Italy make their live more difficult by trying hard to make it easier.

It’s not a teachers job to change nappies. If the children are not potty trained they shouldn’t start mainstream school.

iPads are taking over (and I say this as a parent who is ok with screen time)

As a social worker, I see not just the family in crisis but their friends and families children, children in school playgrounds/cars/restaurants and children are permanently glued to a screen - even from toddler in prams - dummy and screen in hands. in every day life you just have to go to a cafe to see this.

They’re not spoken to, engaged in the world around them, asked to do anything remotely educational- amidst complaints school should do it. Not read to at night, the screens do it. Anything hard, there’s an app for. Parents put in so little input but every single child I’ve worked with for years, the parents assume they have neurodivergence - every single one.

Pretty much. Kids glued to screens and parents too busy on tiktok.
My friend came round to visit with her 3 year old grandson. He was on his tablet while we were chatting. I made some lunch for us all and GS, when the tablet was taken away, screamed blue murder for half an hour because it was taken off him 😡

Parents put in so little input but every single child I’ve worked with for years, the parents assume they have neurodivergence - every single one
I don't have great expertise in neurodivergence so would never judge on an individual basis, but what I find odd is that it always seems to come down to either good parenting (kids are doing well) or neurodivergence. There never ever seem to be consideration that the child is just badly parented. Why?

There have been parents doing a bad job at parenting for generations. This was accepted as a sad part of life. How can just about every parents of this generation become all good at parenting and any child struggling to adjust to school life can only do do due to neurodivergence?

As a parent of 3 children, 18, 13 and 9 my elder two had absolutlet no issues at school, both way above reading sets for their ages each year, both aced SATs both curious and academic children with no extra needs.
My third is in a SEN school, ASD a learning disability, non verbal and doubly incontinent.
I was offered places at parenting classes/workshops and attended the ones I felt were relevant, it is a mixture of parents like myself who have already had other children and clearly just needed some alternative ways to help our child with extra needs and others who were being taught very basic universal parenting skills.
It was quite obvious that these parents had their own issues with learning capabilities/abilities but it wasn't openly addressed ( because that would be cruel ) so authorities are aware of these parents, they try to deal with them in kindness rather than an authorative/combative way.

I don’t think we can answer that as we don’t know your family. Just to throw in my anecdotal experience, I don’t know anyone at our nursery or reception that wasn’t potty trained by aged 3. Although that is obviously a very small sample size, it’s slightly larger than yours consisting of one family.

Most children go to nursery now. Nurseries are a nightmare for toilet training they regularly will put children back in nappies to avoid accidents so when parents are trying they are being undermined

Some parents are totally useless. - even with the basics. But it’s nothing new, as there has always been hopeless parents. 🤷‍♀️

Sure. I just leave my dc out in the garden full-time and let them forage for scraps.

How do you know they are not SEN?

I'm surprised school are getting away with refusing them. Not legal in the UK

YANBU

I've just finished reading a long thread about 4 year olds starting school unable to toilet themselves and some who don't actually know what books are or how they work.

Even for Mumsnet, some of the excuses for this level of neglect were eye-watering.

I'm not sure if it's about giving up on parenting or just having expectations so low, you could trip over them.

Poor kids.

I thought the sadder thing was that a percentage of preschoolers have never played with bubble, had to be shown how to jump in the air- as in just jump up or over something and hadn’t painted or played with play dough! I mean wtf- is it honestly just screens all day or what?

It's illegal for mainstream schools to not accept children who need support with toileting, especially if they have SEND. Hopefully your family member knows that.

This is true but very few people would queue up to make excuses for those parents, unlike today.

Lots of people on the other thread talking about poverty as an excuse for a child not knowing how books work.

As if they can't afford a few pence in a charity shop or they wouldn't look at the thousands of free sites, where people are passing on their kid's old books.

It's about priorities and while others protect them with excuses, those parent's priorities will never change.

I think that stating school expectations are very reasonable for NT kids unless they’ve changed recently.

IME they need to know their name (including surname), use the toilet independently, be able to sit for their lunch (using cutlery to eat) and ideally do some self care stuff like get changed (do zips, put on shoes etc) and wipe.

Normal???

One of my favourite things when mine were teeny, was snuggling up with a book. I find it really sad some children and parents aren’t getting that experience. Mine learned to read really young (I’m sure due to this) and I was so sad that they wanted to read to themselves and made me redundant!
Potty training can be hard. I had two who did it easily, one dry night and day at 18months, and two who were harder but you have to persevere. I read a thread on here recently where a child had had an accident at soft play and people were saying the child should have been in pull ups, shouldn’t have gone etc. madness! That’s how they learn!
Tech is such a curse in many ways I think. Mine are in their twenties so there weren’t iPads and things readily available when they were small, of course they watched tv and videos but with 4 under 6, there would be arguments about what to watch so going out and about was easier!
I do think it is lazy parenting though when children are starting school not potty trained or able to use cutlery etc. (SEN excluded).

I would imagine that in almost all cases of special needs, permitting large amounts of screen time makes things worse for the kid long-term, not better. It may be the easier option for the parent, but it's not one that's actually informed by concern for the child's wellbeing.

You over-egged the pudding. For believable rage bate, you should have either just been watching the news or been concerned about the family member. The wide eyed 'oh, the news just got me thinking that my 4&5yo niece/nephew in nappies might be unusual' is a bit overkill

Expectations of who ?