Are you aware of the amount of SEN/additional needs pupils in class?

[yetiflowerpumpkin]

I’ve put this in chat rather than anywhere else because I just want to highlight the scale of SEN/additional needs in schools. In my experience, and reading on MN, some parents aren’t aware of the issues school staff face in supporting these students.

I am an experienced cover teacher in a medium sized primary school. In the classes I cover there are 25-30 children.

As an example, in two of the classes 75% of the pupils have additional educational needs. Some are diagnosed, others are on the (years long) waiting list. Some have multiple needs (Autism, ADHD, AuDHD, SEMH, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, physical/visual impairment and other medical needs, some life threatening). I don’t think in any class I cover there is less than 40%.

I think some parents think their child is the only child with needs in class and cannot understand why those needs are sometimes not met. In the ideal world all those needs would be met, but there isn’t a possibility in mainstream with lack of support staff, lack of space and lack of funding.

I try and do my best (my own family are neurodivergent) but I know my best isn’t good enough for some parents.

Does it surprise you the amount of additional needs there are in class?

The reasons for the increase in SEND/ possible SEN are hard to define. What I see at my school in the last 10 years is an increase in poor speech, listening and concentration on entry to school. In addition there are more chn who are not toilet trained aged 5. For the first few years at school it can become clear which of these chn have undiagnosed SEND or poor behaviours. Some chn suddenly mature by year 2 , perhaps they were summer babies for example. With others it becomes clear there is something else like ADHD / ASD/ Developmental delay.
The biggest issue we have is getting parents to understand there may be something going on. It’s hard to tell a parent their child may need help. But, if you don’t start applying for help early enough it can take years to get funding and support in place which then means schools are struggling to fund an extra TA and the child doesn’t get the support they need.

What’s changed is knowledge, understanding and acceptance.

My daughter is 16. Several of her peers went through primary school with no additional support. It took them to be at high school for their additional needs to be picked up on. Turns out two of her primary class mates are dyslexic, and another is autistic.

It’s also worth noting that SEN (ASN in Scotland) doesn’t always mean there is a neuro-divergence that makes teaching challenging. In her class, there were 2 children diagnosed with autism but they were not disruptive or difficult to teach. My daughter also was classed ASN, but her disability was (we thought) purely physical. The only help she needed was getting from place to place. It turns out, as we discovered when she hit high school, she is also autistic. Traits that hadn’t been an issue during primary, became a real barrier to her learning. Because we were already under the ASN team, it was easy to get support. Had we been starting from scratch, she could potentially have become really disruptive.

75% is high, but given the lack of specialist placements, it’s no surprise that some areas will have more than others. It is also the case that parents who have been fighting for help and support for their children and not getting it, will often not have the strength and in some cases the knowledge to fight for the most appropriate placing for their children. The “good” schools are largely self selecting. Those who live in areas with high deprivation will find they are less likely to be taken seriously, their children given less support, they as a family are unable to find the right support and therefore their children will be more disruptive as their needs aren’t being met.

Covid did play a part, but not in the way many people seem to think. Many parents who were previously struggling with their children in school, be it with disruptive behaviour or school avoidance, or even a lack of attainment, found the lockdowns were really beneficial to their children. They were able to concentrate better on their education, they were happier, less stressed etc. This will have led to many realising there could be an underlying MH condition they hadn’t been aware of.

One thing to be made very clear is, this is not parents claiming their children have SEN to absolve themselves of responsibility for their children’s behaviour. It is not people trying to scam the benefits system, or some “trend”. The long term chronic underfunding of mental health and support services for children has led to a crisis. The answer now isn’t to blame children and their parents. The failures are systemic.

The curriculum has a lot to answer for. It also came in with austerity. So the support in school reduced. I watched schools go from a class TA all day, in every class and SEN TAs and visits from salt and OTs on a half termly basis, who would give advice, and trained play leaders in the playground, and a full time nuture room and a teacher who just did reading interventions a few hours a week, To just TAs in the morning in some classes and shared SEN TAs.

The curriculum in ks1 has been dumbed down in the last few years. Unfortunately the ks2 curriculum hasn’t

Teacher here.

In my S1 class (I'm in Scotland - kids aged 12 approx) about 50% have an identified ASN. Some of this is medical (hearing impaired), some social and emotional dysregulation, some complex lifelong diagnoses, lots of dyslexia and literacy barriers. In the last five years, there has been at least one S1 who arrived functionally illiterate. One boy could not recognise his own name on his jotter. We also have a high percentage of EAL students, about a third of whom are illiterate and have no functional knowledge of reading and writing skills in their first language. Some arrive with no English at all.

It tends to taper down as you get to the senior phase (exams). Partly to do with appropriate ESOL qualifications being available on the curriculum offer, for some young people the simply stop attending, or their literacy and numeracy barriers mean they are not sitting exams.

I do not think most parents understand the reality of what the classroom looks like. And I mean that in terms of what goes on to stop their academically able and motivated child from progressing as they should. It's impossible to provide appropriate challenge and stretch to a 14yr old when you are also trying to teach others how to sound out words at the same time.

I think your example is an extreme one. There are 3 in my DCs reception class that need extra support and that's the highest number they've had. They have a teacher and 2 TAs, my DC is the only one who currently has an EHCP, the other 2 are on SEN support.
If you're in a class room where over 50% have SEN, you need to wonder if they actually have SEN or the school is the issue because if it's the majority that are struggling then surely it's not "special" educational needs.

I teach in FE. One of my classes is 20 16+ boys. 7 have EHCPs. 14 of them had several managed moves at secondary school. 4 were "looked after" children.

No support.

Wow. That’s hard.

The vast majority of parents will only raise a SEN need, medical need, need for adjustment etc with the school if their child is finding school more challenging than most other children. My child has an adhd diagnosis and adaptations in school, something we would never have perused aged 6 if he was thriving in school.

So, this question can be re framed as, what is happening in school that means that 75% of the children can't cope with the standardized school offering.

Do we need a conversation around how schools are built (loud, echoy buildings; cheap strip lights; noisy corridors; large numbers of other children), how teaching happens (testing, exams, ofstead, pressure on schools to hit a certain target rather than go at the child's pace, big class sizes, not enough TAs, not enough money), lack of movement (expectations around being inside, sitting still, chalk-and-talk, reduction in PE and music and sport), child development (less outdoor time, less risky play, less freedom in early years, push towards academics).

Perhaps those boxes don't fit our children rather than our children don't fit our schools...........

It's becoming more apparent that there's less people WITHOUT needs and more people who have needs.

In my mixed yr 1/2 class, we have independent jobs which involve physical movement, creativity, problem solving in addition to the core lessons. We have a break- out space and a reflections area, we have fidget toys and adapted seating for those who need it. This does not solve the challenges. We need more staff.
There is a push towards risky play and outdoor play in eyfs.

The OP is saying the majority of children cannot meet the expectations of mainstream school.

Some people think this is due to the majority of children now having something 'wrong' with them.
Others might suggest that current expectations are unrealistic for a lot of children.
A lot of 4 year olds cannot read and write sentences, count beyond 20 and double and half numbers.
Lots of 8 year olds can't sit quietly at desks doing table work in overcrowded noisy classrooms with fidgeting and chatting.
Lots of 11 year olds start secondary school functionally illiterate.
Lots of 16 year olds leave education without passes in Maths and English GCSEs.
Maybe they have SEN or maybe the environment/curriculum doesn't work.

Yes, I completely agree - staffing challenges are having a huge effect.

I think in my DC’s classes they are at c25% with SEN. These are small classes of about 22.

I don’t remember this level of SEN from my own primary days. Certainly not to the extent of chairs being thrown and the other children are being evacuated from the class to keep them safe (has happened a number of times in both their classes).

And whilst I have the utmost empathy for parents of SEN children and understand the reasons why they are in mainstream education I do also worry about the NT children who are regularly having their education disrupted too.

I think your example is an extreme one. There are 3 in my DCs reception class that need extra support and that's the highest number they've had

Whereas I think your example is an unusual one. It's been a long time since I've experienced a class with a teacher and 2 TAs, it's pretty much unheard of these days. For the last 5 years there have been multiple children coming into our reception classes who need extra support and several each year who have medical / physical needs that require additional staffing / support. A year where only 3 children who require extra support would be unusal.

My school only has TAs where they are funded for a SEN child- they are not full time.What happens is that they end up being used for all the undiagnosed SEN too.

I was a governor for 17 years.

It probably only took a couple of months for me to learn that schools vary massively in size, and that cohorts vary massively too for a multitude of reasons.

What isn't realistic in your school or borough, can be very realistic in others.

I think it's time to admit everyone has their level of needs on a scale of severity.

My SIL is a secondary school teacher and most of her pupils have some SEN where it was unheard of years ago. It's just spoken about more today and that can be a double edged sword

The OP did not say that, universally, 75% of children in school have SEN. She said that in two of the classes she teaches, 75% of the children have SEN. That is obviously very high, but it was an example of how high the proportion can be in some classes. 40 or 50% might not be super uncommon. 25% is probably pretty normal in many schools. That would probably surprise a lot of parents.

How do 75% of school children have SEN when the number of children with SEN isn’t 75%?

I’ve worked in schools for years, most recently for an agency, and I don’t think it’s the case at all.

I agree completely with both of you. Thw curriculum is currently not fit for purpose and lets down all children, with and without SEN. It needs massively scaling back.

Many still go undiagnosed. Some counties also don't count certain needs, like dyslexia, which is ridiculous but true.

My daughter is in year 2 in a very small school. At least 50% of kids in her class are SEN and this is in a very affluent area.

I think it's a mixture of genuine need, the curriculum only working for kids who can sit still and terrible parenting.

My friend, who's a GP, says the estimations of SEND is anywhere between 25% and 40% of the population.
Our SENCO says 20% of the school
In my class I'd say 50% of various ND. There's other children in the class with needs that wouldn't come under ND, as such.

I am aware of most of the SEN kids in one class but only because I know quite a few parents well and my child is now at an age where they can articulate things that have happened in the class. Not so much my younger child due to age and not knowing the parents as well.

One thing that seems interesting is the behaviour in class and some people are labelled potential SEN when in honesty it looks like bad parenting. There’s one girl who is basically spoilt, the parents blame the teacher for her behaviour yet they pander to her and she has no consequences. Which angers me for children with SEN the wait list for support or EHCP is massive but clogged.

OP - how many children do you think actually SEN vs bad parenting?