Do we need titles Miss/Ms/Mrs/Mr etc?

[NuffSaidSam]

Do we still need these? Does anyone know what the purpose is?

I've just been asked by the TV license people and it's made me wonder if it's necessary anymore (the title, not the TV license).

I think I'd be happy to go without.

I think someone whonhas earned the title Dr by working for and receiving a PhD is more entitled to use it than a medical dr for whom it is awarded on an honorary basis.

DIL's father is a professor of a branch of medicine. He earnt his professor title by publishing world leading research and being awarded research income (Chair). He did not earn his medical doctor title, prior to achieving the Dr title through his PhD.

why do we need to decide who is deserving though?

medical dr, PhD, vet, dentist etc are all entitled to call themselves dr and given the credit for whatever that achievement was to gain that entitlement.

what I don’t like is the view that a PhD isn’t a “real dr” and that it’s seen by a large section of society as that person just being superior or pretentious. Especially when women do it for some reason.

there have been several threads on here where it’s argued that women with phd’s shouldn’t use dr unless they are working in the field of their Phd and then strictly only for work purposes. I sometimes get the impression that women see “Mrs” as the big life achievement, and other women choosing to use dr rather than announce their marital status somehow lessens their own achievement of marriage.

i don’t like Mrs and it’s my title so i use it when I can’t avoid a title. To me, my PhD is a much bigger achievement than marriage and that’s what I want to announce to the world.

we don’t need to lessen medical dr’s achievements to gain more respect for phd’s. Personally I think it stems from a lack of understanding of what a PhD is- I was at uni before I realised why all my lecturers (and some of my school teachers tbf) were dr and that they didn’t have medical degrees.

I do get your point, it just feels petty and making a massive point out of everything. My DH wears his wedding ring just as proudly, selects ‘married’ on things, refers to me as his wife very proudly. I would think it was very odd if he didn’t wear his ring with pride. I enjoy referring to him as my husband too. We are both proud of our commitment. If men want to change their titles/surnames as well then great, I think more do do this now (eg very recently Adam Ramsay Peatty and Holly Ramsay Peatty). Up to each couple really.

I sometimes get the impression that women see “Mrs” as the big life achievement, and other women choosing to use dr rather than announce their marital status somehow lessens their own achievement of marriage.

Mmm, I think that does exist although not universal. There are some married Mrs users who realise that they need a critical mass of other women to play along in order to have their preferred title and meaning, but some really don't. We do quite commonly see posts on here from posters about how their choices don't affect anyone else, which of course is wrong because that's not how titles and naming customs work.

DH and I have been happily married for nearly 30 years. I didn’t change my surname and DT’s are double barrelled to reflect they both our children. Neither DH or I wear a wedding ring and I didn’t want an engagement ring.
I avoid using a prefix (or my academic titles)- I don’t belong to DH and am individual in my own right. It doesn’t lessen our ongoing commitment to our marriage.

Wearing rings is hugely symbolic for many people of different religions. That’s non-negotiable for me. People are different- I would have been so disappointed to have missed out on the romance of a proper proposal with an engagement ring and time to celebrate that ahead of our big day. It’s fun and exciting!

I love having the same name as my DH and children, and referring to ourselves as the … family. I love receiving post addressed to us as Mr & Mrs….. People are different- you’ve been free to do things how you wish, as have I. We can agree to disagree- no way will ever suit everyone, which people on here seem to not understand.

Congratulations on your 30 year marriage- fantastic achievement!

I’m a Mrs, despite being a widow, and I’d like to remain that. 👍

I don’t think anyone needs to be forced to be one thing or the other but atm we are often forced to declare our title. It should be optional.

See I hate all this. I hate that me, my identity is expected to be absorbed into Dh’s. I’m expected to wear jewellery to inform people I am married without even speaking to them.

i don’t like recieving “mr and Mrs dh” post as if we’re some kind of amalgamation rather than two individuals. Especially when I didn’t change my name.

i like having a different name to my children. My name is my identity, to me “Mrs dh” turns me into someone’s wife and mother. It also means if someone wants to add one of us on social media or to whatever child related group, they pick dh as I’m not immediately identifiable as mum.

we are still a family.

you would be surprised how differently you get treated as an adult woman not defined by marital status. I can hear people’s- men’s- brains flip when they ask “is it miss or Mrs”, and I say no it’s Dr. It’s noticeable and it’s why I would never be a Mrs.

the only thing I find surprising is I got married 25 years ago. Yet my pov is still extremely unusual, women are still in the majority using Mrs, changing their names and wearing rings. Being “proud to be married” but not expecting the same demonstration of pride from their new spouse-men blithely carry on with their lives with the same name, identity, and passport.

i mean the paperwork alone of formally changing your name should put anyone off, but they go through that whole rigmarole of getting passports, driving licenses, finances etc all changes just so they can advertise being married! Why?!

I suspect dp and I have been together longer than anyone else on here. Separate names, I am first Myname or Ms Myname,no rings. None of this has any impact on the strength or importance of our relationship.

Ha the paperwork changes was so easy, but then I’m very efficient with admin and love a to do list.

You hate these things, I love these things. That’s life! I love being publicly associated with my DH and children, they are the loves of my life. I’m full of love, not hate.

Oh and somebody being a Dr, whether male or female, is irrelevant to me. My estimation of them as a person will be based on how kindly I experience them treating others, irrelevant of their level of education/finances.

What was the reason your DH didn’t change his surname on marriage if you wanted to have the same name?

For multiple reasons:

1. It’s traditional, and I prefer traditions generally. I also loathe technology and hand write Christmas and thank you cards, which Mumsnetters also hate 😂
2. I prefer his name.
3. I have had 2 previous surnames, my Dad’s and my Mum’s. My Dad committed suicide and my Mum’s Dad sexually abused my younger sister, and is currently still in prison. So yeah, neither of those surnames were ones I wanted to be associated with. My DH is my family, and a far better man than any in my own family, who I haven’t had contact with for 20 years. I don’t expect people who have extended family members they are proud to be related to to fully understand how happy, relieved and proud some people are to change theirs once married.

What I don't like is the assumption that some humans must be addressed with the totle of Dr, but they may use my first name without asking. If they wish to use my forst name they may do so.providing they introduce themselves with theirs. Hello Roses, I'm Kate Smith, Consultant cardiologist. To say "hello Roses, I'm Dr Smith, is just reductive.

If someone calls me Ms surname I respond with my first name especially Doctors, Dentist or Optician. I don't want to be Ms surname. I don't want to add a title when I have to input my details online either.

Let me answer you @Parker231. My pre-married name was dreadful, the sort of name the whole class rips the tiddle out of. Also, by the time I was 21 both my parents had been married three times, decades before it was customary. Aged 12, after scandal broke in the local papers, County family and well associated, I was called to my Headmistress's study, where I was looked up and down "well girl, time will tell us if you have more substance than your mother".

Those things stay with you and I was very happy to take DH's name, traceable to the 12th Century, to be Mrs his name and to ensure I always had the same name as my children.

Also, although I respect other women's choices regarding rings. When ours were blessed before God at the altar, I found that and the vows we made to be incredibly spiritually profound and there began my relationship with God. I have taken off my wedding ring once in 35 years. When it had to cut off when I broke my wrist. The repair cost more than the ring initially. The beadingbis now a little worn, the repair can be seen, it has a patina of wear. It reflects our long marriage, the challenges, the bereavements, the recoveries and like us it has endured.

In my mid 60’s now and I just can’t see the point of titles. Why can’t I just be Cherry Mauve?

@RosesAndHelleboresI’m very sorry that happened to you. But I don’t understand why you didn’t change your name as soon as you had the autonomy to change it-it’s not hard. If you had not married, world you have carried a name that was a burden all your life?

Yes I don’t get this either. Women saying their birth name is associated with bad events, terrible people, and they wanted rid of it.

perfectly understandable, but why wait until marriage? You can deed poll at 18, you don’t need a man to turn up so you can change it. Sort it and get on with your new life and fresh identity.

@CurlewKate in case I have given the wrong impression, I was very close to my father who was a wonderful man. The name per se was not associated with bad things but was a bit forrin and lent itself to teasing. Once I left school that stopped. I had no need to reinvent myself.

DH's name is utterly charming and I wanted our children to have the same name as me - family name. Double barrelling would have been ludicrous - it would have resulted in 32 letters! I spend a lot of time spelling out our name as it is.

I'm not religious, so wouldn't be doing anything 'in the eyes of God' because as far as I'm concerned there isn't one (or maybe there's millions, all the gods that humans ever imagined). I take the evidence of my partner's hard work for our family every day over a few words said years ago. It's no less of a commitment just because we're not married.

Mumsnet are not legion, we don't all agree on everything. I think women who rely entirely on a man for money are completely insane, and I wouldn't be a SAHM for anything. A few of my friends have got divorced in the past few years, and marriage really doesn't give you that much protection - men find any way they can to avoid paying maintenance, and you're still going to eventually need to get a job and your own place.

Ahh yes, there’s that classic misogynistic stereotype of referring to any woman who does things differently to another as ‘insane’. Misogynists enjoy labelling women as ‘hysterical’, ‘insane’, ‘difficult’, ‘bossy’, etc.

I am perfectly sane thank you, despite your rude assumption. Very highly educated and qualified might I add. I have a double first class degree from Cambridge, and won multiple academic prizes every year from 16-21. I am also highly qualified and experienced in Early Years Education, studying the needs of under 5s at Cambridge, with a decade of experience advising, moderating and driving improvement in schools county-wide. Given my extensive knowledge of the attachment needs of children, it was a no-brainer to me to care for my own whilst they were under 3. A highly strategic decision to best meet their needs. For me it would have been an ‘insane’ decision to entrust the care of my own babies and toddlers to strangers likely to be younger, less experienced and less well qualified than me, their mother.

Given my extensive and professional knowledge of safeguarding, there is also no way my children were being left anywhere until they were old enough to speak and been thoroughly taught about pants safety and boundaries by me first. I regularly scrutinise safeguarding procedures at their school as a governor, all staff know how thorough I am- I take my children’s safety extremely seriously. That comes above petty point scoring with my DH about both of our wants and careers.

Misogynistic? Me? 😂

This has been done to death on MN. Call yourself whatever you want or nothing at all.

No we don't need titles. Titles aren't used in my country (except professional ones) and everyone manages just fine. At places like the doctors you get called by your last name which is perfectly fine.