Do we need titles Miss/Ms/Mrs/Mr etc?

[NuffSaidSam]

Do we still need these? Does anyone know what the purpose is?

I've just been asked by the TV license people and it's made me wonder if it's necessary anymore (the title, not the TV license).

I think I'd be happy to go without.

‘Older generations’, I.e the generations that invented feminism, developed Ms to avoid naming women according to their marital status.

I am in the second half of my 60s and have been Ms since I was 14.

And am frequently exasperated with the frequency with which younger generation MNers declare that Ms is for divorced women.

I was in Iceland in the summer and was told that it’s common there for everyone to call each other by their first names in both social and professional contexts. There’s a nice egalitarian feel to that, in my view.

As previous poster pointed out, us older women, are the ones who started resisting the use of ‘Mrs’ upon marriage. I am older. I have never taken my husbands surname and I will never be ‘Mrs’. My DC have my surname.

Well l changed back to Miss after my divorce 30 years ago.. and my maiden name.. I'm still called Mrs " maiden name" at the Doctors/ hospital and any other health facilities l have to go to.. every time l ask them to change it to Miss.. they say no problem.. click a few keys and prounce it's done.. of course until next time l.go in or receive an NHS letter.. it's still Mrs.. I've given up.

I favour ‘Citizen’ as a ubiquitous title.

Respecting each other as equals together in a society. Reminding ourselves that as well as having our personal individual names we are part of a bigger community.

That might come with a whole other set of difficulties.

It is a weird thing when you think about it - it’s only necessary (as such) if one were perhaps writing to Mr Lewis as opposed to Mrs Lewis with no initial or first name - but society is generally less concerned with such formality so I don’t see much point.
I use the Dr title I earned from my PhD in many settings because it stops people talking to me like my husband has all the clout but it’s not relevant to most ordinary situations so even the honorific titles don’t add much in general society. My pet peeve is the belief that medical professionals are the (when relevantly qualified) “real” doctors / they historically are not (the doctoral degree being the original entitlement to use the title) but I’m also too old to give much of a shit about that any more either.

I'm in my fifties. I am basing the older generations comment on the fact I remember my parents discussing it in those terms when I was a kid!

I use Ms myself but I am aware it can have those connotations rightly or wrongly.

Interesting comment about Iceland. I’m quite senior in the public sector and deal occasionally with complaints. I can’t imagine addressing Jane Smith as “Jane” when I ring her to discuss her dispute.

But I’d like to get to the stage where that’s normal I think, with me referring to myself as Claire and calling her Jane.

Interestingly in France they decided that upon turning 18 women go from mamzelle to Madame. It used to be only Madame if you were married. Now it’s just adulthood. I like that but British English isn’t like that. Pity.

I'm not sure we have the cultural framework for that. In posts about surnames and titles, we typically hear from women who are delighted to be Mrs and want a title conveying their marital status. They reject the nearest thing we have, Ms, and I wonder if they wouldn't try and create a new equivalent if Mrs were repurposed as a universal adult woman title.

I can see the point about it removing a formal/polite option, but I don't think that'd bother me. I'm happy to be called by my name by pretty much everyone. If anything Ms Surname makes me feel really old!

It might be difficult for teachers...though at my school we called all the women Ma'am and all the men Sir, so we could use something like that for teachers/moments when formality is really needed.

yes but there are fewer than half a million inhabitants and it is their culture. They tend not to use surnames anyway.

Here? not so much. It is a sign of professional and polite respect not to launch into first names when you first meet someone, and frankly i don't like being called by my first name by, say, doctors.

I'm in Germany. Here you shouldn't use the familiar form (unless in an informal social setting) unless invited to, usually by the older person. And i like that.

but we're not equal.

I don't want, say, a judge saying "well, Dave, you have been a naughty boy, you are hereby banged up for 26 years"

or "Simon, you were driving eratically, blow into this bag"

or "passports please, oh Julia, you haven't got a visa"

I like these terms and remember as a child, boys were classed as master, which does seem very old fashioned now.

if you want to have a title, and I can see why you sometimes might, then we have Mr and Ms.

I'm yet to come across anyone who isn't biologically female who uses Mx, so I don't think that it is as gender neutral in reality as you think.

Gender can be useful to know if you need to describe someone, such as the lady in the shop with short brown hair is the one helping me (if you don't know their name) compared to a person was helping me and I have no way of helping you work out who they are as everyone working here has short brown hair.

well you have just come across me - so that's a start.
I use it, for eg, when i order first day covers from the Royal Mail. You have to enter something, so i use Mx. There is absolutely no reason at all for the Royal Mail to know my sex.

Other occasions, mamogram, smear test, etc, then for sure they need to know my sex (not my gender since apparently you can pick that at random)

It really isn't rocket science.

I had a medical professional ring up and she called me Muddy about ten times in three minutes. I have never met this person and in the end I told her to call me Mrs Ford as it wasn't a social arrangement. I don't want to be called by my Christian name by all and sundry; a bit of detachment doesn't come amiss.

This exactly!
How would you SAY Mx?? I've seen it in forms, but never actually checked who it applies to

Well she could call you ford - you don’t need an honorific

I like being a Mrs.

I like Miss or Mrs, I hate Ms, it’s awful.

Theyre less and less common, and I tend to start ‘is that Muddy Ford?’ on the phone, but they’re still sometimes handy. Ms works fine for me but I don’t object to Mx.

I don't need to know what genitals someone has to make a retail purchase. If they serve you politely and efficiently that's the end of it.