Do we need titles Miss/Ms/Mrs/Mr etc?

[NuffSaidSam]

Do we still need these? Does anyone know what the purpose is?

I've just been asked by the TV license people and it's made me wonder if it's necessary anymore (the title, not the TV license).

I think I'd be happy to go without.

I am always Ms. When I lived in another country they just automatically put Ms unless you changed it and I quite like that as default. No one asked me. Wish it was here too. No one's business whether I am married or not

Staying married is what most people do. It's akin to eating breakfast or walking the dog. It simply isn't an achievement, unless there have been barriers such as affairs etc.

You're dismissive of marathon runners and first women in space, as you think that a marriage (which anyone over the age of 16 can do) is a greater achievement? Have I misread your post?

What's interesting is that you are presenting a stereotype of a 'proud Mrs' - someone who believes in an imaginary sky monster and apparently supports the fascist Farage. Knowing that my opinions are very different from those of the likes of you is very reassuring to me.

''The titles "Mr," "Mrs," and "Miss" were invented as honorifics—titles conveying courtesy and respect—that originally indicated social status and position, rather than strictly marital status. They were abbreviations of "Master" and "Mistress" and began to be widely used around the 17th century in Britain.''

I've never married, so have only ever been a Miss, and I hate the title Ms, I refuse to answer to it; it sounds like there's an angry wasp up my nose! Mzzzzz!

I prefer not to use such titles unless I really have no choice, but over the years, when filling out offline and online forms, they won't let me do anything without my marital status.

Even when in the shop, when I'm buying something, and they've had to take my details, I've had trouble with a lot of staff who get quite sniffy with me when I refuse to reveal my status. I tell them it's ME who is buying the item with MY cash or card, nobody else!

I can understand medical people asking, as they have to know if there's a Next of Kin or whatever.

I don’t pick and choose between what individuals are proud of. We have an issue with anyone saying they are proud of being happily married or happy spending time with their own children, which is utterly bizarre. Individuals can be proud of whatever they want. Anyone can get married, but not everybody has the skills to stay married, especially nowadays when divorce or not marrying at all are actively promoted and encouraged. There’s very little support and encouragement for young people to get married or stay married, so it’s definitely something to be proud of, and something my children are being raised to understand and value the importance of.

I'm happy with Mrs. I don't really like people I don't know at all using my first name, it's too familiar!

Some posters are pointing out that they prefer certain groups to show them respect through using titles (e.g. not wanting ‘young upstarts’ being too familiar), others want to know the sex and/or gender identity of people (presumably because this facilitates certain expectations) and other want to hide or reveal their marital status (presumably because they either do or don’t think this should influence other people’s perceptions of them).

The bottom line is, society would be a better place if we showed respect and afforded dignity to those around us - regardless of their age, sex, gender identity, marital status etc. To this end, standard titles or phrases that are not tied to specific characteristics would be he,Paul in encouraging their use with everyone?

Unless a person’s sex, age or marital status is relevant to a given context (e.g. the dating scene) I think people who want titles to be used to supply this will initiate interaction based on assumptions they carry in relation to sex, age etc. The feel ‘better prepared’ or ‘well represented’ by this information. I see this as a negative thing though - preferring us all to work at being respectful and earning respect through our interactions.

Agree, @RunningforSam , which is why I favour some version of Citizen as title, if we need titles.

Ms is perfectly easy to pronounce. Just watch 10 minutes of an American news programme! It’s only a “problem” for performative misogynists.

Older generations do not assume Ms means divorced. A divorced woman became Mrs Jane Smith rather than Mrs John Smith. That's what my mother believes, age 89.

I am not stating this to enter into an argument, simply to correct an assertion.

Fair enough. However I believe it's titles for all or no titles.

My DS has a DPhil and only uses his title on official documents - he certainly doesn't expect his students to call him Dr x. They just use his first name.

GPs and hospital doctors who wish to be addressed with their titles may use mine. I am happy for them to use my fkrst name if they introduce themselves with theirs. I will not have them address me with my first name if they expect me to address them with the courtesy and respect of their title. Mutual respect matters and whilst some humans may be cleverer or harder working than others it is unacceptable for them to address another human with less resoect than they wish to receive.

As a woman I can chose my title from Ms, Miss and Mrs. I have earned no other. Perhaps it is time to ditch Miss as Master has been ditched, Esquire too.

I use Ms, if I have to use something - I don't think my marital status is anyone business. But I'll happily take no title and it slightly pisses me off when application forms insist on know stuff about me that has no relevance - that includes my sex as well as my marital status.
I don't like being called Madam - fyi Waitrose.😂

Well, you're correcting my experience based on your experience...so perhaps it's more accurate to say some of the older generations do this then.

I'm pointing out correct form actually. Older generations who think Ms denotes a divorced woman are misinformed.

I admit that I find it a bit odd when companies are over-familiar and address me by my first name.

I am happy to retain my title of Miss, as it indicates that I am most definitely female. I have been mistaken for being male on a worrying amount of occasions, because of my original name, and for working in a male-dominated industry. I've also been put down for being female, which was never my choice, and which I will not apologise for. What is or isn't down my trousers isn't going to hold me back.

Anyway, back to titles... My grandmother sends me mail with the title of 'M/s', on the assumption that I might not want people knowing that I am unmarried. I am more concerned that people might think I'm questioning my sex, rather than my marital status!

No. I work in one of the top universities in the UK and nobody has their title on their office door, including the professors. Just the name and department.

It's depressing that people react more politely to someone with such a title. I think it's fair enough to use it professionally but am always embarrassed when people use Dr when it's irrelevant (socialky).

@RosesAndHellebores PhD and same as your DS. I use it officially because I earned it but my students use my first name.

Not sure where bans come into it? We're talking about societal change. I mentioned upthread I think one of the barriers to a universal adult female title is a cohort of married/divorced Mrs users who want something to signify their own marital status, and who might then try and come up with another title. It sounds like maybe you would fall into this category.

It probably is moot given that we're moving away from title usage, but it interests me. The change we've seen just in the past couple of decades has been really significant. I do think part of that is that not using a title is a less worse option for organisations than dealing with all the faff that's created by some women having strong views about having titles denoting their marital status.

My DM always used to address e.g, birthday cards to me, with Mrs (dh’s initial and our surname.) I told her mildly enough that I’d prefer to be addressed with my own name - she said she’d been proud to be addressed as Mrs Fred Bloggs once she was married!

Mind you she was born in 1918…

I have always addressed cards to married couples with e.g. Sue and Jim Green, and in the case of family/friends I never use titles at all.

Yes, but "Dr." isn't protected. You could have used it anyway. Many do. (As long as you aren't "doing medicine" ....)

Yet your dh doesn’t get to proudly show off his marital status?

do you think we should introduce titles for married men then? Have master for unmarried men, and only married can use Mr?

name changes? Men don’t get to change their names so everyone knows they’re married, maybe we should bring that in too.

it’s the inequality. Women change their names, use a title to announce their marital status. Why do men continue life as before. Are they not proud?

I think they are pointless unless a professional title earned by qualification.

I can see differentiation between a minor and an adult is necessary in some instances but miss doesnt denote that im the way master does.

Of somone has obtained a professional title, that doesn't give them the right tonaddress me as their subordinate.

Interestingly, if man is knighted, his wife become lady Smith. If a woman receives an equivalent, a Damehood, her husband does not become Sir Smith, he remains as Mr Smith. A rare example of a woman benefitting when a man does not.

Rare indeed, although I must say a lot of us would regard such a title as rather cringe and undesirable too! I think I'd almost rather be Mrs DHsname than Lady, if I ever had to choose, and that's saying something.

But you make a good point- these systems are set up to favour men.

True, but I know I earned mine, and I think I'm allowed to be proud of that?