Would having a male midwife bother you ?

[ChristmasRobinFly]

Just watching the us office birth episode where the male Breast feeding consultant comes along

and reminded me of having a male midwife and I felt uncomfortable but too embarrassed to say actually, I don’t mean to be sexist but
actually no, I don’t feel comfortable with this

Those few male midwives in the UK aren't half busy, are they? And they're all FANTASTIC and BRILLIANT, what with their long fingers and wonderful midwifery skills. Where would us women be without their exceptional talents?

This is an interesting question as a man delivered my first child and stitched me up. The female midwife was appalling. All the same I wouldn’t want a male midwife.

Its also not just about the delivery, emergency or otherwise.

Women are supposed to be able to build up a relationship with their midwife during pregnancy and build the kind of trust where they can share intimate concerns and fears. This is difficult enough with the NHS “take or leave it” approach to choice - an additional reason to keep female and why comparisons with eg the anaesthetist on call coming in to do an epidural is not comparable to the professional with whom women are told to build a relationship.

The radiologists did an excellent PR job implying a shortage of mammographers meant the gap could only be filled by men. In reality there wasn’t a shortage of screening mammographers, the problem was persuading women to come forward for elective screening.

The fact that so many men considered the experience of an elective mammogram to be the same as a female consultant urologist conducting an exam during a referral made it clear they understood sod all about the experience of screening mammograms. I was amused by the number of celeb women suddenly all over Twitter declaring they would be delighted to be manhandled in the dark by a man they hadn’t been introduced to, not least a couple who I know full well have never used the NHS in their lives and benefit from full service private healthcare. Almost the caricature of white privilege performing as SJWs.

Given that all midwives have the same 'technical' skills in order to practice, how do you think you would choose - given the NHS doesn't allow women to choose their midwife on that basis?

But they don’t all have exactly the same technical skills. Like all healthcare professionals, they are taught the same technical skills but the application of those technical skills differs between individuals. Basically people can range from brilliant to basically competent with technical skills. Being basically competent still gives a tick and gets people a piece of paper and registration. The poster I was answering said if you had a CHOICE who would you choose, and I answered on the basis of having a choice. I go private for healthcare where possible so do have a choice and as stated, gender never enters into my decisions no matter what specialty it is.

I did not want a male doctor or male midwife.

They have the same technical skills in order to become a midwife. Of course their experience and skills will vary as time progresses, but as before - that is not something that women can routinely choose. That's great you can afford private midwifery care but the vast majority of women can't, and that choice (of sex, gender is irrelevant )is denied them.

Agree with everything you've written @C8H10N4O2

Unless you have some means to vet prospective midwives, which I'm not aware of existing even in private care, beyond finding out if they homebirth midwifes vs hospital based, then the idea of choosing based on 'technical skills' is ridiculous.

I used researchgate when choosing a private endocrinologist for a rare condition. I narrowed my search down to 2 that happened to work in the same regional nhs centre (i was going private but it meant distance was the same). One female, one male, since part of my problem is perimenopause symptoms i chose the female, i also factored in that she was a native English speaker and he wasn't, and due to distances involved i was likely to be having some video consultations, which i find difficult when a strong accent comes into the mix.

Realistically the only HCPs that you can really vet are consultants who are researching and publishing, but this doesn't account for professionalism and bed side manners.

Unless you have some means to vet prospective midwives, which I'm not aware of existing even in private care, beyond finding out if they homebirth midwifes vs hospital based, then the idea of choosing based on 'technical skills' is ridiculous

I absolutely agree. Prospective patients aren't given questionnaires to assess their midwife's 'technical ' skills, so quite how a woman without a detailed background in midwifery would confirm a grading of said skills I'm not sure. Perhaps that's where the finger size and niceness from upthread comes into play?

I’ll advise the next woman I know having a baby to keep a ring sizer in her hospital bag.

I absolutely agree. Prospective patients aren't given questionnaires to assess their midwife's 'technical ' skills, so quite how a woman without a detailed background in midwifery would confirm a grading of said skills I'm not sure. Perhaps that's where the finger size and niceness from upthread comes into play?

Personally, I got feedback from friends and acquaintances who knew people’s skillsets in maternity units, ob’s etc who worked with midwives etc. Sure, given the uncertain timing of birth, it wasn’t possible to have certain ones scheduled on at all times, but it was possible to have a spread so there should generally always be someone earmarked to be allocated for any shift you arrived around that time.

Exactly the same scenario for specialists if treatment can’t be performed in a private hospital, and if unanticipated and urgent you get who you get until people can swing into action and care is transferred as quickly as possible. One of my kids in ICU had the nursing roster amended so there were certain nurses identified put on every shift but that was due to planned surgery (knowing ICU care would be needed for a while), so that was easier. It’s common practice for everyone I know, just exchanges of favours. Same as I would give people advice re technical skills for people with which I was familiar and could pull in favours if/as needed for others.

For a 24/7 rota you need approx 5 people to cover one role (based on a standard nhs 37.5hr week and including the capacity for abstraction for leave, sickness, training, secondment), so a labour ward with 10 rooms, aiming 1 midwife per room then that is 50 midwifes, you must be awfully well connected to know that many members of staff in just one profession. Then what if the other 9 labouring women have an opinion on who they want.

I had one baby abroad. I asked if I could book with the midwife. It turned out there were no midwives, you saw the doctor.

If you wanted advice on other stuff you either asked the doctor or your mother in law/ mother. The doctor said there was no requirement to replace family with a stranger.

I remember thinking my mil was bossy and interfering enough, thanks :) and my dm was very squeamish - and said morning sickness was attention seeking nonsense, so not overly helpful:)

Male or female, just the kindest, efficient person is fine. With lots of experience preferably!

My goodness, what an amazing turn of fate that you just happen to know so many people who work in obs and midwifery that you could ask such detailed questions of do many people's specific skillsets. I have colleagues (35 years in the NHS), family and friends who also work for the NHS and none of them could pull off what you claim to be able to. You must know so many of the right people - what is your role in the health service?

As someone pointed out though - none of the above actually guarantees you that midwife when you arrive in labour. As I'm sure you know.

@SirChenjins are you unpleasant on every thread, or only the ones where you clearly have an axe to grind?

The idea of debate and discussion is usually to hear and consider the perspectives of others, not just to attack and belittle people whose views and experiences differ from your own.

Not been back to this thread for a few days as I've been working long shifts. Good to know that there are plenty of people out there who have far more knowledge and experience of maternity than those of us that work within the service though.

Have a lovely Christmas won't you x

Do point out where I've been unpleasant, won't you? I don't have any axe to grind, but I certainly don't think that women should be put in the position where there's any possibility of having a male midwife (or indeed any clinician in the NHS) if they don't want one. As we know however, that simply doesn't happen in the current healthcare systems across the UK. What do you think about a woman's right to choose who provides intimate care currently? Do you think it's adequate? Exceptional? Something else?

I'm aware that other posters who don't reside in the UK don't and won't understand that.

My goodness, what an amazing turn of fate that you just happen to know so many people who work in obs and midwifery that you could ask such detailed questions of do many people's specific skillsets. I have colleagues (35 years in the NHS), family and friends who also work for the NHS and none of them could pull off what you claim to be able to. You must know so many of the right people - what is your role in the health service?

Yes, I do, and if you don’t then your shortcomings are not my issue I’m afraid. Was a clinician (consultant level) for decades, and similar with everyone I know.

And no, I don’t know everyone, don’t be silly. But I will know someone who knows someone who knows someone for sure. For example, was talking to a friend recently (surgeon) needing assistance. They didn’t know the answer but thought their neighbour, who was another specialty would so rang them. They didn’t know but thought their sibling (same specialty but different interest area/sub-specialty) may know. So they called sibling immediately who confirmed they had the information needed and they asked them to call us to discuss. There is always someone who knows someone, so if you know so many people you must know this!

Ob’s are a dime a dozen so working in hospital settings if you don’t know them directly, you know others who know them and skillsets. Just in social circles I know several in’s yet have never worked in the same hospital as any of those. Anaesthetists are good ones to target for feedback on ob’s, and there is always a good network into them. And ob’s are handy at providing feedback on midwives, and as said, pulling favours to ensure there is decent coverage with ‘better ones’ to coincide over the period due, so no, no guarantee of getting one specific person, but likelihood of at least a decent one on each shift with a favour of allocation.

Ahh, so a medical consultant(?) with access to people who know people who know people. Yes, I could imagine how that would work. Still doesn't help a woman in labour who gets to hospital and is allocated a midwife on arrival with an unknown skillset though, or people attending the myriad of clinics for other conditions, as I'm sure you know.

Are you in the UK? Did you practice medicine in any devolved system? What you describe isn't typical of health services here.

@SirChenjins I’m not in UK but practiced in NHS for a number of years and am still in touch with many ex-colleagues still in the system there so I’m very familiar with it. Our public system is the same and yes, it’s possible to swing who you want in the public system, just may not be that night or may take a few hours if unanticipated while someone organises it in the background. Our private system can’t deal with the breadth our public system can (which is equivalent to NHS) but my kids or family that have had to go through clinics etc have always had someone I’ve wanted as that’s not hard to organise. Appreciate it may not be like that for everyone but it is for many like myself and only detailing as you seem so adamant it’s not at all possible?

Not sure why you believe I’m referring to a devolved health system, your guys are currently flocking to ours in droves (just as we flocked to yours during the time I was working there as funnily NHS had much better working conditions at the time plus more scope to advance faster)🤷‍♀️.

So as I deduced from your posts. Not based in the UK, no longer practicing by the sounds of it, and describing a situation that doesn't exist for women delivering here (so irrelevant on a UK based forum).

Where are you based? I'm curious as to where one woman can currently arrange for specific 'better' midwives to be on duty 24 hours a day in a public healthcare system that's the complete equivalent to the NHS in the period leading up to and beyond her due date.

I can’t recall when I have ever read such a completly entitled and tone deaf post. I do hope it’s a wind up or a fantasist. But I do fear that it isn’t.

Even in the private system in Australia you choose an obstetrician and book with them. Their practice will have some midwives, and that’s the midwives you see. The midwives are not as relevant as the obstetrician as they take most of your appointments and deliver your baby, but they are there in labour, do checks etc, assist in delivery and take some appointments. Having had a couple of babies at a busy London hospital it is incomprehensible that you could choose a midwife, you’d be lucky to see the same one twice. Which was prob a good thing re most of them, although not all of them.