How do you feel about this for National Service/Conscription?

[monrymeadows73]

A lot of European countries, most notably Germany are moving towards the reintroduction of conscription. Right now, Germany has introduced a volunteer system, whereby all men born in 2008, who will turn 18 in 2026, have to undergo an assessment to test for their fitness for military service with the intention of incentivising German men to join the German military. However, if there are not enough recruits, then Germany may mandate conscription. But, this is just for men; not women.

In some other European countries, conscription is mandatory for only men; while in others like the Scandinavian countries, women are also obligated to take part in military service.

I know that some may oppose conscription/military service in the UK outright; but if, for whatever reason, it was re-introduced, how would you feel about the following points:

1. Should British women aged 18 and above be forcibly conscripted along with British men; or just British men?
2. Should women have to undergo the same processes in the military like have to have their heads shaved like men do?

I wonder how this fits into feminists' views of equality. Again, before some people start suggesting that they are opposed to conscription for everyone, what I'm asking about is if somehow it was implemented, regardless of how you feel about it, how do you think it should be promoted i.e. for both sexes and both having to undergo the same processes or just for men?

No cyber is not the only other option..

For example NATO - (where several states were/atr nuclear armed) moved away from tripwire (where any Soviet attack, even conventional, would be met with an immediate nuclear response) to a policy of flexible response several decades ago.

In the 70s/80s a conventional Russian attack crossing the Inner German Border would have been met initially with a conventional response, the idea beng to delay the nuclear crap as long as possible and give the politicians to talk.

I think if you could insert cyber into that time frame it would be have been a (probably) small element of the conventional effort...

Frankly cyber (and by cyber I don't mean plain old EW) would be sod all use on a lot of the battlefield against most ordnance, though you might be able to degrade Command and Control to some degree.

The first thing that would happen when the nuclear bombs start going off is the whole of the internet will go down so cyber anything won't be happening.

Yes l know, but this whole thing is about conscription. Why would conscripts be needed in a nuclear war? They wouldn’t, that’s why it’s moved into other types of war.

I doubt there will ever be an issue with requiring arm to arm conscripts. They are needed for the sort of thing in Ukraine and Russia which is non nuclear.

But if Russia attacked a NATO country properly it would just end in nuclear anhialation.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But if Russia attacked a NATO country properly it would just end in nuclear anhialation.

Depends.what you mean by "properly".

If you mean "properly conventionaly" then have a look again at what I mentioned upthread about the NATO policy of flexible response, which I think is still current.

If you mean "properly nuclear" there would probably be a heck of a lot of "it depends" determining on the scale of response....

Also women already serve across all of our armed forces and no one shaves their heads!

odd thing to be obsessive about @monrymeadows73

I want to know what ‘improperly nuclear’ looks like now 😂. A little bit of bombing yourself? Sending a tiny little nuclear cloud free?

Fair point..one example would be a nasty thing caĺled "Selective Release"

e.g. Russia fires one shot, single warhead, test of national/NATO resolve.

Honestly all Russia needs to do it interrupt our gas supplies, our food imports and our communications and then sit back.

Neighbour will turn on neighbour as supermarket shelves empty and are not restocked. People will become vicious to each other as their children start to starve. No need for Putin to do anything except sit back and watch the chaos.

Once one neighbour gets a gun to defend their home, others will follow.

Remember how neighbours grassed each other up during covid and the queues for food at the supermarkets and empty shelves. We still had all our services at that point so can you imagine the chaos if you can't use your bank cards, the shelves are empty, there is no fuel at the pumps and your house is freezing and your water can't be heated.

We are in the war whether we like it or not. We chose to support Ukraine by sending money and weapons and housing their citizens. We firmly chose a side and did not remain neutral.

We could have co-ordinated attacks in different areas of the UK like Salisbury. I mean even in times of peace they got away with that didn't they.

We are a tiny island with a small army and I'm not convinced we have kept up with all the technological advances. I mean there was nothing in the budget for defence was there. Just more benefits. Can you imagine KS organising the country for a war. The thought is horrifying.

I've already got a stock of tins, water and torches for emergencies. You will be on your own if it happens. I'll be first in line if they are handing out guns and training on how to use it. I will need it to defend my home from looters.

My son is already in the RAF. I feel it would dilute the work he has already done/doing. I don’t think he would like to be alongside a conscript.

We are no longer dependant on Russian gas

how would they interrupt our food supplies?

By a cyber attack. Look what happened to M&S. Imagine if that happened across lots of businesses all at once.

Yes agreed but there are emergency infrastructure procedures for that. Because the food is still available, the ordering etc systems are disrupted. That’s not a long term problem. Russia could not starve us that way.

It depends what you mean by starve I guess, but even a few days of food in short supply would cause civil unrest.

Where is the infrastructure to get everything where it needs to be if all the systems break down at the same time?

most folk have health issues now from the life style it’s not the 1900’s anymore I know that’s not an excuse but it’s just how it is we’re not fit enough to go to war

There are recovery plans around critical infrastructure to keep the country running.

thats a fundamental part of what the government are for.

i work for a critical infrastructure and there are laws, regulations and policy which dictate the success of our recovery plan

There are, but I worked with one of these guys briefly and the quality of planning involved was .... not reassuring.

Given the gigantic amount of drones that Russia is manufacturing and stockpiling (they are manufacturing and stockpiling tanks too, artillery and cruise missiles) - I suspect that they would be able to take out the distribution centres as well as the energy centres in the UK, which would lead to a very severe problem. Never mind the cyber attacks ...

Sadly, the fact is that whether you believe it or not doesn't matter.

It's the old white men, specifically the ones in the Kremlin, who do.

At this point your posts are coming over as sticking your head deep in the sand and with a rather unfortunately level of belief in your ability to influence anything. Because what's moving now is at a far greater level than either you or I can influence.

Either keep sticking your head in the sand and seeing nothing but sand grains close to your eye or look up and take in what the old white men some of whom want only peace like Rutte are saying. Which is that Russia is already hybrid attacking us and has serious and realistic plans to invade by 2030 unless the Western EU sharpens up.

By the way these hybrid attacks have (it's been reported) included putting bombs on civilian planes powerful enough to bring them down. We are fortunate that so far security measures have stopped it. Biden's administration made some threats to the Kremlin that stopped it at one stage but it started again recently (reportedly, but not from trash outlets)

Mmmmmm no.

I lived through the Cold War. I spent my young adult life terrified. And for what?

That general also said that war was unlikely.

Which is that Russia is already hybrid attacking us and has serious and realistic plans to invade by 2030 unless the Western EU sharpens up. where does it say this?

I'm sure there are and no doubt that's part of why we haven't already seen significant disruption (there must have been attempts?), but im not confident that we'd be able to handle a widespread attack without civil unrest.

It's fair enough not to have noticed the recent'ish upsurge in Russian low level/grey hybrid warfare but it's not really on to imply it's not been happening..even Google will point to multiple articles on the subject...one example here, if the source isn't to anyone's liking there are plenty of others...

united24media.com/opinion/europe-is-already-at-war-a-peacetime-mindset-leaves-it-vulnerable-to-russian-hybrid-attacks-14147

I won’t fight in yet another man’s war. Women have to deal with enough male violence as it is.

I say every single person should refuse to fight and any leader who wishes to wage a war can fight in single combat with whoever they are arguing with. Job done.

Sigh

NATO sec gen Rutte, who has a record of a stable and reasonably good leader of the Netherlands for almost 13 years.

The Czech president Pavel, who is sensible.

The ex-leader of Estonua, on Russia's border, who is now the chief of the EU Foreign Affairs and Security.

As well as some fairly respected generals, hom I suspect uou would dismiss simply because they are career soldiers.

Russia plotted to kill the head of a German arms manufacturer https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-official-confirms-russian-plot-kill-european-weapons-chief-armin-papperger/

And please look at @notimagain post or Google yourself.

Whether you or I want a war is immense (I really dont). But our fate is not always entirely in our hands.

I'm sorry if you were terrified @ArseInTheCoOpWindow You weren't the only one. I remember Threads too, though not quite the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I don't want another war either. But I'm not going to pretend the signs are good at this moment. All that Russia respects is strength and so we'd better get strong. I don't believe that the UK is top of the invasion list -those are the Baltic countries probably - but economies are intertwined and war on the continent WILL affect the UK.

Russia BTW holds a special grudge for the UK. Seems to go back decades. Very odd. It doesn't matter if it's justified or not - what matters is that Russia bears us active ill will.