Labour isn't working - Thread 20

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙* *

We are bracing for the budget. 😬

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5443813-labour-isnt-working-thread-19?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Sounds familiar.

@Boohoo76 Congratulations! 🎊
Let us know how you get on. 😊

Thank you. I won’t find out for a couple of months.

I hope everything works out for you.

I've just read you can enter the UK on a holiday visa or as a student and then claim asylum.

Regarding Al Carns - does him being ex-military, and in fact ex-special forces... in politics for just a year.... ring alarm bells for anyone else?

I'm getting pretty worried about stability. The posts above about how private industry and Finance (9% of our economy) are tanking - and we know from history that economic disaster is dangerously destabilising. David Betz has talked about the rifts in our society which make us vulnerable to civil war. And now, we're looking at a possible prime minister (internally selected, not subject to the voters' scrutiny) who made his career in the military, only moving into politics a year ago.

It's felt like the 1930s for a while, but today we seem to have fast-forwarded to 1939.

I don't know about holiday visas specifically, but a huge number of asylum claims are made by so called over-stayers. Also happens with student visas.

I’ve not heard of the Carns guy, I can’t see him springing from nowhere. It’s odd to see so much bigging up of Mahmood too online. A survey stated the four others would beat Starmer in a leadership race. Burnham, Rayner, Streeting and Miliband.

What a mess they are. Chaotic and damaging.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/11/22/pakistanis-holiday-visa-loophole-lodge-record-asylum-claims/

Pakistanis use holiday visa loophole to lodge record asylum claims
Nearly 10,000 attempt to secure permanent residency in the UK after initially gaining temporary permission

Pakistanis are exploiting holiday, work and student visa loopholes to get to Britain and lodge asylum claims in record numbers, new data has revealed.
Nearly 10,000 Pakistanis entered the country with temporary visitor, work or student visas before then switching last year to claim asylum in an attempt to secure permanent residency in the UK, according to government data.
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Pakistan now accounts for one in 10 of all asylum claims, more than any of the 175 other nations from which migrants seek refugee status in the UK. It topped the table with over 11,000 asylum applications, ahead of Afghanistan, Iran and Eritrea in a five-fold rise since 2022 when its claims numbered just 2,154.
A former senior executive at the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said it was evidence of the immigration system being “gamed from the inside” and not just at the borders, where more than 39,000 migrants have entered the country illegally on small boats so far this year.
The data, obtained by the Tories through freedom of information requests, showed that overall 40,739 migrants claimed asylum last year after arriving on legitimate visas or having been granted other forms of leave to enter the country.
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Of these, more than 16,000 entered as students, around 11,400 on skilled worker visas, and just over 9,400 as visitors. This means some 37.6 per cent of all asylum applications for 2024 originated from people who entered through legal, temporary routes.
Chris Philp, the shadow home secretary, said: “Britain’s broken border and visa system is being openly abused. Tens of thousands are walking straight through the front door, exploiting legal visas and staying for good. It’s a complete failure.
“Migration has been far too high for far too long. Tough, decisive action is now needed to stop this exploitation once and for all. Asylum cannot be used as a back-door route for people who came here to study and then refuse to leave when their visa ends.”
Pakistan dominates across all categories of visas and was the only nationality appearing in the top three for each of the student, work, visitor, and other routes. Taken together, Pakistani nationals made 9,783 asylum claims, representing around 24 per cent of all visa-to-asylum switches in 2024.
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Pakistan topped the table for student visa switches to asylum with 5,888 claims, more than the totals for the second and third placed countries of India (2,295) and Bangladesh (2,374) combined.
With 902 visitor visa holders seeking asylum, Pakistan was second to China’s 1,094. It was also second for work visa switches to asylum, with 2,578 to Bangladesh’s 3,268.
Pakistanis’ 11,234 asylum claims in the year to June accounted for one in 10 of all the 111,000 applications, the highest total number since records began.
Jamie Jenkins, former head of health and employment statistics at the ONS, said: “With 162,000 visas granted to Pakistani nationals in the past year, the numbers reveal a clear loophole: the UK’s generous visa system is feeding directly into record asylum claims.
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“This also feeds into a wider issue of public trust. Communities across England are still dealing with the fallout of the grooming gang scandals, which overwhelmingly involved men of Pakistani heritage.
“Against that backdrop, rising asylum claims from Pakistan risk deepen the sense that immigration is poorly managed and that the Government has lost control
“The rise of Pakistan in the asylum league tables exposes a truth politicians often avoid: Britain’s migration system isn’t just failing at the borders - it’s failing within them. Yes, small boats matter. But ‘legal entry, then asylum claim’ shows how the system is being gamed from inside.
“This is not a problem that photo-ops in Dover or slogans about dinghies can solve. It requires a hard look at visa policy, fast-track removals for unfounded claims and honesty with the public about the true scale of asylum pressures.”
Peter Walsh, a senior researcher at Oxford University’s Migration Observatory, said it was difficult to say why there had been such a big increase in asylum claims from Pakistan, saying there had been reports of worsening economic and environmental conditions, and lack of security and insurgency in some regions.

The disclosures follow an asylum crackdown by Shabana Mahmood, the Home Secretary, forcing any migrants who entered the UK illegally – including visa overstayers – to wait 20 years before being allowed to settle and making their asylum temporary with a review every 30 months. They could be returned if their country is deemed safe.
A Labour source said: “No amount of Tory spin can hide the fact they let our migration system spin out of control. They should be apologising, not pretending they have the answers now – it’s14 years too late.
“This Labour Government is restoring order at our borders with the most significant reforms in a generation. We’re cleaning up the mess they left behind.”

@Didyousaysomethingdarling thanks for that article.
It's everywhere isn't it.
I hope now it's exposed they will crack down on it !

*the last labour gov caused mass immigration so it's not 14 years of Tory misrule either it's both.

Rupert Lowe on X regarding inflation.
I appreciate he’s not everyone’s cup of tea but see the bolded copy…

Everything costs more, so much more and Britain is getting poorer, so much much poorer. People can feel it - it’s a pretty dreadful combination. Food’s more expensive, energy bills soaring, a pint costs six quid outside Central London. Childcare, insurance, mortgage payments. It’s everything and it is bloody awful. Inflation MUST come down. It doesn’t feel like anyone’s got any answers. Well, there is one. The only one. Brutally slash tax, radically tear away vast swathes of the state and eventually rebuild national resilience/confidence. There is no easy solution. We are in deep, dark shit. There is no other way to describe it. It will be painful. Very painful. Politicians need to be honest about that. Britain has the highest tax burden since the Second World War. Millions are working harder than ever, yet becoming poorer every single month. Inflation runs rampant. The cruellest tax of them all. Are we surprised it’s exploded? The Government printed hundreds of billions during lockdown, shut down the economy, wrecked supply chains, raised taxes on work and investment, and then acted totally baffled when prices soared. What happens if you inject such huge amount of money into a system? It all becomes worth less. This is obvious. It’s called ‘quantitative easing’, a fancy way of saying printing money and we need to ban it. Inflation is a cancer. A tax that wipes out wages, savings, pensions. It makes life more expensive. Here is the honest truth. You cannot fight inflation by taxing people more and growing the state. You can only fight inflation by cutting the size of the state itself. If we want to bring down the cost of living, we need to start telling the truth. The state is too big, too bloated, too expensive and too incompetent. The debt is too vast. The rich don’t suffer. It’s the poor who feel it. THAT is why we must change. Urgently. In 25/26 it’s expected debt interest spending to total £111.2 billion. That’s 8.3% of total public spending and is equivalent to over 3.7% of national income. Think about that. If your family’s debt interest payments equalled that, how would you cope? Bankruptcy, is the answer. Britain is going bankrupt. We spend more on debt interest than defence. It is INSANE. We are spending too much, far too much. Try running a business like that. Good luck. How do we fix it? A pound taken by government is a pound removed from the productive economy, and fed to the unproductive state. Cut taxes on work. Income Tax down. Raise the thresholds. Farage now backtracking on this (huge error). National Insurance down. Let people keep more of what they earn. REWARD HARD WORK. Cut taxes on business. Cut Corporation Tax - lowest in Europe. Reduce Business Rates. Slash Employers’ NI so firms can hire again. Ease dividend thresholds. Tear away the frictional costs of doing business. Lubricate the system. Make Britain the easiest place in Europe to do business. Tax breaks for long term investment. When businesses produce more, supply goes up - and prices come DOWN. This is basic economics. Slash the size of the state. Brutally. And I mean brutally. Billions and billions in cuts. Right across the board - welfare in particular. If you can work, you MUST work. Support those in genuine need, but that is a vanishingly small number compared to current spend. Ban foreigners from claiming any benefits. Asylum costs, foreign aid, dependent migrants. It all has to go. Civil service pensions. Unsustainable. Need to be dealt with. It’s a time bomb. We need Government to do a small list of things, but do it well. Protect our borders, people, interests. Rebuild national resilience. Build energy independence so families aren’t battered. We import SO much energy. Drill baby, drill. Frack. Use what we have. Drive the cost of energy down, and everything else follows. This is not complicated. Food security so supply chains can’t be held hostage. GROW MORE. Cost comes down, again this is not complicated. A skilled British workforce so productivity rises and dependence on vast low-wage migration ends - target education. Reward businesses who train and develop apprentices. Deport the millions of migrants who take more than they give. It is not our responsibility to financially support much of the third world. We have our own people and our own problems, thanks. Ban money-printing, without Parliament’s express consent. Crucially, tackle crime. Give people confidence to invest and reduce insurance costs. SO important. Britain must become a country that lives within it means. Not spending more than we earn. In fact, raising enough to begin paying off that debt, and reducing those interest payments. The cost of living crisis will only be solved by stripping back the state that is crushing our country. There is no other way.
The left will say ‘tax the rich’?
The rich will leave.
They are leaving. It’s already happening. They go, and take their tax revenue with them.
This is OBVIOUS.

You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer.

Collectivism ALWAYS fails.

We need cuts, cuts and then more cuts. Trust the people who actually work, build, produce and create. Give them the space they need to thrive, and we’ll all benefit. Generate wealth. Attract success. Cut inflation. Breed confidence. It’s quite straightforward. This is how we lower the cost of living. Put more money in people’s pockets. Rebuild the British economy. Make you and your family richer. It can be done, it will just take balls.

Interesting comment on the post from Rupert.

The UK’s fiscal gap is now £152 billion annually.
Every proposal Rupert Lowe lists already exists in internal Treasury models marked “politically undeliverable.”
Civil service leaks show the same cuts were rejected 47 times since 2010 for fear of media cycles lasting longer than 72 hours.

Governments do not fall from debt. They fall from cowardice dressed as compassion.

On Kuenssberg just now: Opening question to the three on the sofa, "What do you want to see from the Budget?"

First response was from Sharon Graham, "A tax on wealth."

Sharon Graham is giving me a red mist rage. Typical that she won't let others get a word in.

Did you hear Polanski? 🤯🤯🤯

And hunt said child benefit won't affect child poverty.

@Didyousaysomethingdarling I'm no expert but my instincts tell me the lowering of taxes is correct. They also need to close these asslyum loop holes where 1.4 million non British nationals are claiming our benefits. .

Spend the money on closing these loop holes and use that money for their black hole and raise the tax and NI thresholds !!

It's a 'just because' tax for them, isn't it? Who gives a shit if it achieves anything, tax the wealthy because they have the temerity to have that wealth. A bitterness tax.

I think he was trying to point towards evidence that outcomes have not changed since the cap was introduced. Obviously shouted down by SG.

The benefits cap change is Reeves and Starmer trying to keep their leadership roles surely. The public won’t want it, it’ll be dire for Labour.

So they don’t want to be ousted but feel it could happen.

New thread ✨️ ✨️🧵🧵🧵✨️✨️🎉😎

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5448743-labour-isnt-working-thread-21?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Absolutely 💯
Starmer suspended a group of MPs at the beginning of his premiership for calling for the cap to.be scrapped.

Mark Dolan this morning on Talk Radio is saying Angela Raynor is the favorite to become Prime Minister. The new go to career if you have no qualification, no doubt when schools use a computer to predict future careers for pupils. The first question will state if you have more than 1 GCSE grade D/3 that Politics is out of the question, instead try Medicine.

Regarding this 'Cairns' never heard of him (desperate stuff). How can anybody with a Military background support, or worse become a Labour MP good grief. The same needs to be said about people who have/had business in hospitality late night clubs/bars etc. That is why to laugh at 'Sacha Lord' Manchester Nightlife Supremo and DJ who in his mid 50s has suddenly realized about Night Clubs/Pubs/Restaurants and Labour Don't Mix and yet he was a 'Labour' Man.

Why I laugh at Sacha Lord (previous love in with the king of the North)

Yes. I can almost felt my BP going through the roof.

Graham added nothing but nuisance and ignorance to the conversation, speaking solely on behalf of "her members". I felt sorry for the others, politely listening to her pointless interruptions when in terms of knowledge and ability they could have wiped the floor with her. I hope they did off-camera.

Kuenssberg this morning neatly encapsulates everything we discuss on this thread - ignorance and greed versus education and ambition.

I'm listening to Heidi Alexander on Trevor Phillips and she had a bit of a Freudian slip with 'chuckling' child poverty, and she keeps repeating that three quarters of children in poverty live in working households.

What does that mean though? Both parents working, full-time, part-time, only one parent working part-time? I really want then to give a proper breakdown of the numbers, instead of parroting just one line.