Justine says MN is too mean and will tighten-up moderation

[noblegiraffe]

Justine posted this on a low-traffic thread in AIBU and I think it deserves a wider audience than it is currently getting, especially as it is asking posters to report low-level sniping and pile-ons. Perhaps a bigger announcement is planned, I don't know.

"Thanks for raising this - it's something we've been discussing internally as we've noticed the same shift you’re describing and we agree it’s something we need to get a much firmer grip on. Debate is part of Mumsnet’s DNA, but unnecessary meanness isn’t, and it helps absolutely no one.
We’ve already put a plan in place to tighten things up. It’s not just about deleting the really obvious personal attacks, but tackling the low-level sniping and pile ons that drain the life out of threads and discourage people from posting in the first place. That means more proactive involvement from us earlier in a thread, not just sweeping up afterwards.
One thing that really helps is reporting. There are around 25,000 posts a day on here, so we really don’t see that much in real time. If something feels off, please do report it. We promise to read things in context and we’d much rather step in early than let a thread spiral.
Most people on here genuinely want to give support or perspective. When that gets drowned out by needless nastiness, everyone loses. So thank you to everyone who’s raised this. We hear you, we agree with you, and we’re working on it."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5442610-the-current-state-of-mn-and-how-do-i-stop-reading?reply=148524522&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I think you only get a few minutes after posting, when you might spot a spiling migrate, or something, and correct it.

And your post is then marked "edited" so you can't deny you changed it.

And if you click on ‘edited’ it shows you the original

Yes, which is needed because you just know that people would use it to post abuse which they then deleted and denied later.

The same sorts of people who posted laughing emojis on sensitive and upsetting posts which means that we don't have that option anymore.

I didn’t realise that’s why it went. I liked pressing it for funny stories. The flowers one looks a bit like condolences rather than support.

Yeah, people are arseholes and this is why we can't have nice things.

You see I nearly put ‘support’ flowers to that comment which look like ‘condolence’ flowers which to me looks like I’m taking the mick. I will thumbs up agree instead! 😫

Yes, trans activists used to go onto threads in FWR and laugh at and mock womens stories of rape and abuse by men.

Apparently some men also get off on women’s accounts of sexual abuse - there have been suspicions about the ones that claim a trans identity and attend women’s rape support groups. But obviously we’re the bad guys for pointing it out.

Yeah, support forums/ subs for women who'd been SA'd/raped always used to be where the grossest geezers hung out. Even now if you see a poster pushing for detail or subtly reinforcing a woman's negative feelings about herself it's an odds-on bet that's a bloke typing with one hand'
On the general point though, moderation is always a compromise & what seems to one person an entirely reasonable point innnocuously expressed, may seem shocking to another. That's an inevitable consequence of lots of strangers communicating with each other.
If MNHQ tries to pursue aggressive moderation you'll wind up with a kind of MN Bluesky. "Wafflesgate" notwithstanding, that site is not doing well in attracting or retaining users, I suspect that MN's rather better at those things.
(I only made an acc here recently but I've lurked for years & the sole sub where I've seen plain "mean" posts is AIBU.)

Query - is there a glossary of MN abbreviations anywhere? There are a lot & they're not all obvious - to me a "PBP" is still a "penicillin-binding protein" & that's never helped here. 😆

Here https://www.mumsnet.com/i/acronyms

PBP is Previously Banned Poster.

There's a thread in chat re mobility allowance being used for top marque cars.
Now that is pretty awful.
Pitchforks and live on the breadline if you take tax payers money!
And if you have a disabled child why do they need a car? (adapted people carrier probably for the chair).

This one is a bit of a curveball. People with certain health conditions, here Marfan Syndrome is a reasonable eg, might require a lot of space & that's often v hard to get in budget vehicles, it's harder than you might expect in midrange vehicles too. Not everyone with Marfans will need a Motability vehicle but if you do, it's highly unlikely that you'll be physically able to drive a Yaris. A friend's son has Marfans, he's fit & well ATM thank goodness, but at over 2m tall, he has a very narrow range of cars he can drive. It's such an issue for tall people that the Tall People's Club even do a kind of "Which?" guide to cars.

Edited to add "highly unlikely" should read "impossible", I use understatement too much.

So far, where one can find the new rules? Is it still free speech?

Free for some but not for others

Didn't MN try a "Be nice" campaign a few years ago? Clearly it didn't work, so maybe they do need to get tougher.

What concerns me about MN moderation is consistency. There seems to be little logic in what personal attacks they will leave alone and which ones they will zap. Although they keep saying people shouldn't troll hunt, they seem perfectly happy to leave troll hunting posts up if they, MN, decided the person involved could have been a troll.

I suspect there is quite a variation in individual mods opinions and things are let go if the mod in question feels the reported poster is in the right, even if they are quite obviously breaking the talk guidelines.

This is the crux. I particularly remember an incident a few years ago where there was incredibly provocative bullying of a poster who was eventually called a cunt. When they responded by telling the other poster to fuck off their post was deleted, leaving the cunt one standing. No account of context whatsoever.

I can see it from both points if view. Some posters do need a reality check and to take responsibility and accountability for their own circumstances etc, but if people dare to point that out, the OP get upset and see it’s as ‘bullying’. Some people need perspective and if you post on AIBU then expect people to be honest (sometimes it may feel brutal) The veery nature of AIBU is fair game for different opinions and some people just don’t help themselves and that in general is topic for discussion.

If you go on to the more serious stuff for example the SEN board, it is much more understanding and supportive. It’s like night and day compared to AIBU so it’s definitely a supportive site when it’s needed.

I agree there is no need to be nasty, however pointing out facts that some people won’t like will be enough for some to cry ‘not kind’. It sometimes feels that the only was is the OPs way.

Having said that, there does seem to be posters who do like to go against the OP and seem to want ti disagree with everything, almost like a sport.

I don’t agree with be kind. Be honest is more useful.

That's very black and white. You don't think it might depend somewhat on the circumstances/person?

It’s not impossible to be both.

You can be kind and honest

Being honest is often kind - unfortunately many posters don’t like honest responses! I think ‘be considerate’ is probably better. Word honesty with sensitivity.

Was the cunt one reported? Every post I've ever seen calling someone a cunt has been deleted.

No, just the one in response. It was shocking.