Justine says MN is too mean and will tighten-up moderation

[noblegiraffe]

Justine posted this on a low-traffic thread in AIBU and I think it deserves a wider audience than it is currently getting, especially as it is asking posters to report low-level sniping and pile-ons. Perhaps a bigger announcement is planned, I don't know.

"Thanks for raising this - it's something we've been discussing internally as we've noticed the same shift you’re describing and we agree it’s something we need to get a much firmer grip on. Debate is part of Mumsnet’s DNA, but unnecessary meanness isn’t, and it helps absolutely no one.
We’ve already put a plan in place to tighten things up. It’s not just about deleting the really obvious personal attacks, but tackling the low-level sniping and pile ons that drain the life out of threads and discourage people from posting in the first place. That means more proactive involvement from us earlier in a thread, not just sweeping up afterwards.
One thing that really helps is reporting. There are around 25,000 posts a day on here, so we really don’t see that much in real time. If something feels off, please do report it. We promise to read things in context and we’d much rather step in early than let a thread spiral.
Most people on here genuinely want to give support or perspective. When that gets drowned out by needless nastiness, everyone loses. So thank you to everyone who’s raised this. We hear you, we agree with you, and we’re working on it."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5442610-the-current-state-of-mn-and-how-do-i-stop-reading?reply=148524522&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

a trans teacher is a pervert bully who is a risk to children just because he is trans

But you have claimed that it’s been said on here when it clearly hasn’t so how do we believe you when you claim it’s been said elsewhere?

And I dispute it back. I can even provide a screenshot of one of the posts I reported (username blocked out of course and sorry MNHQ if this isn't allowed).

Do you have that link to the post where I allegedly called you racist?

Interesting how people who regularly post angry responses on other threads are now doing the same here.

not really.. people who spend their time trying to silence others by shouting them down will continue the same behaviour on other threads.

I don’t see much “shouting down” on MN generally or this thread in particular. Disagreeing isn’t “shouting down”. I haven’t seen much anger either.

Where’s the angry responses?

People are very sensitive

i do think some boards should be moderated better than others though - so if you need support for a sen child there is a place to go (I use this example because my dd has adhd and it winds me up when I see ‘just other in meds’ or ‘show some discipline’). Then people who really need support have a ‘safe’ space

like the black mumsnetters board - I read threads on there a lot and find them interesting but I don’t comment because that’s not what the board is for if that makes sense?

whereas aibu and chat don’t need the same level of moderating

@noblegiraffe my recollection is different and as the disputed posts have been deleted you can’t prove what you say.

Would you agree though, that on a thread about a male person presenting as female, it is not “transphobic” to mention that cross-dressing can be a paraphilia for some men? No one on Mumsnet knows for certain the background or motives of the man in question and it is within the parameters of normal debate to raise it.

I don't either - but it's not an uncommon complaint - it's interesting

I’ve looked - maybe you got deleted. It stuck in my head because it was such a flat out unqualified accusation.

Nowhere in your screenshot does it mention ‘pervert bully’ or ‘a risk to children just because he’s trans’.

There are a significant number of men for whom identifying as a woman is indeed a paraphilia, about which they are very open. If a man is identifying as a woman in a school setting it would be prudent to establish if he is one with that type of motivation and to exercise caution accordingly. Safeguarding of children is paramount. The risk to children is because he is male.

I'm interested to know how people would feel about a trans man (bio female) in a teaching role. Would the same suspicion be levied at them?

And this thread also shows that as soon as trans is mentioned it dominates the conversation

it also proves it has to be bought up constantly. i have fatigue from seeing people moaning about it all over the board.

Probably not, as women do not sexually offend in anywhere near the same levels that men do. I've also never heard of a woman having a fetish for presenting as a man and being addressed as one in public and getting euphoria clitoral spasms from it. I suppose if I looked very hard (and I don't care to) then I might find some rare examples but they pale against all the men posting trophy selfies in women's toilets and discussing how much it all arouses them.

In my experience, women who claim to be men are very often trying to escape objectification.

I don't think I've ever had a post deleted. Nor do I remember calling anyone racist. Given you can't prove it or even link to the thread in question, I suspect we'll have to leave it there.

If you really, genuinely don't think that a post saying "have they checked his hard drives" and saying they'd be "deeply suspicious" of him isn't heavily implying someone's a pervert and a risk on the basis of nothing more than they're a man and ID as trans, I don't know what to tell you.

As that person would be biologically female, and the risk males pose is higher than the risk females pose, statistically, I’d hazard a guess at no.

I don't believe there is evidence that women presenting as men do so for fetishistic reasons, so no. However, there could be other concerns - e.g. the privacy and dignity of men in intimate spaces, or the requirement to call her "sir".

Thank you.

Anyone trying to defend that is really not worth engaging with.

There's no point Justine trying to change MN. This thread proves that.

How so? What's unacceptable about this thread? I think it's pretty civil.

As just neatly illustrated, perhaps one explanation for this is that they wouldn't know it if it slapped them in the face.

I think so too. Certainly by comparison with some threads I’ve seen.

there are assertions that a trans teacher is a pervert bully who is a risk to children just because he is trans.

You made a false claim though. This wasn’t said - even in PPs screenshot intended to provide evidence. You also claimed it has been said on this thread which everyone can see is not true. I’ve explained your error rather than defended it but it really seems that you just don’t like anyone who disagrees. That is your prerogative but don’t try and shut us down.

No, that's your error because the screenshot was certainly not the only post on the thread casting aspersions on the teacher.

Even when evidence is provided it's not good enough. Of course it isn't.

And I'm not trying to shut anyone down. I'm just not going to bother arguing with you any more.

Agree @BundleBoogie .

But I would equally like to discuss the issues around threads where opening posters are reaching out in a desperate state - job or money issues, housing precarity, children with disabilities, abusive relationships, health problems, bereavement etc.

Why do people feel the need to put the boot in, and what can MN do about it?