Justine says MN is too mean and will tighten-up moderation

[noblegiraffe]

Justine posted this on a low-traffic thread in AIBU and I think it deserves a wider audience than it is currently getting, especially as it is asking posters to report low-level sniping and pile-ons. Perhaps a bigger announcement is planned, I don't know.

"Thanks for raising this - it's something we've been discussing internally as we've noticed the same shift you’re describing and we agree it’s something we need to get a much firmer grip on. Debate is part of Mumsnet’s DNA, but unnecessary meanness isn’t, and it helps absolutely no one.
We’ve already put a plan in place to tighten things up. It’s not just about deleting the really obvious personal attacks, but tackling the low-level sniping and pile ons that drain the life out of threads and discourage people from posting in the first place. That means more proactive involvement from us earlier in a thread, not just sweeping up afterwards.
One thing that really helps is reporting. There are around 25,000 posts a day on here, so we really don’t see that much in real time. If something feels off, please do report it. We promise to read things in context and we’d much rather step in early than let a thread spiral.
Most people on here genuinely want to give support or perspective. When that gets drowned out by needless nastiness, everyone loses. So thank you to everyone who’s raised this. We hear you, we agree with you, and we’re working on it."

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5442610-the-current-state-of-mn-and-how-do-i-stop-reading?reply=148524522&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I think they need to have boards where there is zero tolerance. And if you think the OP is an arse and an idiot then just don’t post

I have never noticed anti-semitism or racism, but that is probably because I avoid most political threads.

There is definitely ableism; I see it most often in the benefit-bashing threads, but I could well believe it happens on other threads too.

Ditto transphobia. MN has a reputation for transphobia for a reason, and I say that as someone who is gender critical. I avoid most trans threads because of the blatant transphobia. You can be gender critical without being unnecessarily nasty, imo. If Dave wants to change his name to Davina and start identifying as a woman, that is absolutely her right, it harms no one, as long as she recognises that some spaces are segregated by sex, not gender.

Advanced search I have seen being abused a lot. I remember a thread a while back where a poster asked for opinions on how long a cleaner should take to do her kitchen. She posted pictures; her kitchen was gorgeous. It was beautifully decorated and pristine except for some crumbs on the floor. The way some posters responded to her, you would think she'd posted something out of Extreme Hoarders; some of the replies were vile.

One poster was AS'ing anyone who defended the woman to "prove" they were lying about only sweeping their floor once a week/day/month, etc. Really sensitive threads of mine were dragged up relating to my eating disorder and the death of my DH, but the posts stood because no personal attacks were made. Other posters were also "stalked" across all their old threads, were cleaning had been mentioned. It was bizarre and a tad unnerving.

Really sensitive threads of mine were dragged up relating to my eating disorder and the death of my DH, but the posts stood because no personal attacks were made

That's interesting @Frequency because I thought it was against talk guidelines to bring up stuff from one thread onto another thread?

Some people take things way too seriously - people on an anonymous forum will exaggerate or even lie, be bolder than they would be etc etc

some of the obvious troll posts can be good fun where it sparks a humorous debate - and does it really matter?

as soon as you are getting emotionally involved then it’s best to step away

The nature of the forum is that people post stuff where they are emotionally involved though, particularly when it is about parenting.

I feel there are some men who are anti-women on MN. You can tell who they are as they don't really take on board the problem the OP is explaining but sweep in with really nasty comments.

I meant more the people who respond - some people get really upset when the OP doesn’t conform to their ideas

@noblegiraffe They resurrected the original threads rather than posting about them on the cleaning thread, and they never mentioned the ongoing thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5087078-to-think-i-still-deserve-medical-attention-despite-being-overweight?page=18

Towards the end of this thread, the comment on its own is innocent, but in the context of that thread being resurrected to prove a point on another thread (which I won't link to as it was not my thread) was just odd and, at the time, upsetting as I was still struggling with my eating.

That’s fine. I won’t engage with you any more. The screenshot provided did not evidence your claim though so obviously it’s not good enough.

Respectfully, you might find the whole process less exasperating if you remember that you have your views and other people are entitled to theirs which may not accord with yours.

Ah I see the post about the cleaning. What's really insidious and horrible about that sort of behaviour is that you know what is being referred to and how upsetting it is, but practically everyone else will just skim over it and have no idea or look at you like you're mad when you try to explain the background.

There appears to be a lot of 'sticking the boot in' masquerading as 'tough love' on that thread too.

Yeah, that thread stayed with me for a while. In retrospect, starting a thread about weight when I was already struggling probably wasn't the best idea, given my history, which is a shame because I got some genuinely helpful advice on that thread too.

That's the thing about MN; you can get advice that is genuinely life-changing, but if you're at all vulnerable, it can also be incredibly damaging. I think the same is true for most social media, though. When you're posting from the comfort of your own home, it is easy to forget there is a real person, with real struggles, on the other end of your "words on a screen".

I think one problem is that when nasty posts get deleted, it actually protects the person who wrote them. Other posters don’t see what was said, and the person who was targeted ends up looking ‘oversensitive’ or like they’re causing trouble.

Another thing is how easy it is for posters to recognise someone’s writing style. Even if you name-change, people can still follow you from thread to thread. It helps genuine posters stay safer on the surface, but in reality it doesn’t stop pile-ons or people targeting the same poster again under a new name.”

@LostTooManyScrews
That is a very valid point.

A thread I was on some while ago yurned very nasty.
I tried to correct a couple of points.
The other posts got deleted.
I looked like a bully.
My account got suspended.
The thread was zapped.
The OP turned out to be a PBP

Leaving the thread up but locked would have had a better effect all round.

I've name changed numerous times over the years and I've been accused of being several people, but never any of my previous incarnations.

I think situations are more recognisable than writing styles.

People can still see quite a lot by googling 'mumsnet' and a username, unfortunately. But yes, scrapping AS would definitely help.

Yeah if I want to find a thread on a topic (school or condition or whatever) I just use google

Therein lies the issue. Like someone upthread said about recognising things being false because they notice them using long words and sentences that are too long to have been typed on a phone.

That has to be the daftest sleuthing reason I've ever heard. Not all of us are on our phone, i don't think I've EVER used MN on my phone, I'm a laptop only user, so have full keyboard access!

I’m not on X/twitter but I understand you can flag a post if it has questionable facts? Maybe that would be good?

I have done that several times and posts haven't been deleted.

I think HQ recognising mis and disinformation is a real Achilles' Heel. They were all over it in the height if anti vaxx threads ( or at least when it was reported to them, it got zapped) but seem to have given up. They seem less clear on disinformation in other areas of life.

Yes, for example when Tommy Robinson-type twitter were propagating that lie in the summer about the planned terrorist attack on primary schools from asylum seekers. I don't know why they didn't take a faster, more robust stance on that one given that it was specifically aimed at worrying parents.

Absolutely! Sometimes I’m horrified by the callousness of responses to such posts. Sometimes I get involved and challenge it but I don’t know what MN can do other than respond to reports.

It would be useful if we as posters were able to delete a post ourselves. Go to edit and delete it it still posts. You can do this on most other platforms. Xx

But the reason you can't delete the post entirely is so that I can't say that e.g. "you're a twat" and then delete it/edit it to say "actually I disagree" and look all innocent when you object.

I wouldn't need it for that reason but I guess some would.

I’ve written whole documents on my phone!
Ive never heard of such a thing - long words cannot be typed on a phone? Really?
so I couldn’t type supercalifragalisticexpialidocious … on my iPhone.