Electric cars - Reeves to hit drivers with pay-per-mile tax

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Todays telegraph. Can imagine there will be howls of protest to this one.

Rachel Reeves to hit drivers with pay-per-mile tax in Budget

I've got a plugin hybrid - that's going to be a bugger to figure out the charge for surely.

Plus I live rurally. It's all very well trying to get people onto public transport, but in order to do that, there has to be that transport available, which to rural people of course, it isn't. When I lived in London I didn't bother with a car because I didn't need one.

Same here. Apparently they are just going to apply it at a reduced rate to the whole PHEV mileage. So if you run a PHEV with a high petrol mileage you are going to get creamed having to pay both the petrol and the electric tax.

On a personal basis my mileage is very low so it doesn't really matter, but I disagree with it on principle.

They should have taxed petrol and diesel and SUVs more for a couple more years to convince people to switch over. They have shot the bolt too early.

Ofgs, at some point all motorised vehicles on the road need to contribute.

EV tax is already a thing, starts this year.

EV’s still use roads. They need to pay their way. 👍

EVs are also considerably heavier so they create greater wear on the roads. There had to be a point where the free ride ended since the Govt will want to ensure they keep the 50 billion plus coming in or get even more.

I was looking at an electric car and drive very low
mileage, maybe 4-5000 a year , I’m hoping that it brings down the initial cost due to people being put off , fingers crossed anyway, got to be some silver lining !

Of course they are despite having free charging for a while and being ved free. Plus their heavier virtue signalling vehicles cost more to purchase

They lose a lot of value so can be a good s/h buy

The other issue with PHEVs that dumbass Rachel Liar Reeves hasnt considered is the "EV" range of them.

Will the stupid Govt charge EV rates for the electric only mileage that PHEVs do?

And how the fuck will they even know? Some PHEVs only do 20 miles - others up to 100.

This whole PPM is a clusterfuck led by woke, broke, lying filth Labour politicians who have had endless wet dreams about road pricing.

The next budget will introduce this hair brained scheme to petrol/diesel/hybrid cars....mark my words.

What does everyone say they're heavier?

They're just not. Most are within 10% of their petrol equivalent within the same range, apart from the very smallest where the battery is a larger proportion of the vehicle.

Most EVs are much lighter than the largest ICE cars - range rovers, q8s, x5s etc.

I agree. However unrealistic it might be in the long term, EVs have been promoted so vigorously for years as both much better for the environment and much cheaper all round.

Yes, roads need to be paid for (well, only in theory if you're a council in charge of maintaining them and mending pot holes), but so much store was set by pollution needing to be paid for, and that being the model for charging road-users, that it rather distracted heavily from the reality that roads are expensive and need to be paid for regardless of pollution.

The clear message pumped out was that, if you make 'the right choice' and invest in an EV, you'll save a fortune compared to the selfish, reckless ICE drivers. Many buyers felt that they'd already more than made 'their contribution' with the trade-off of paying a lot more for a considerably more expensive EV (especially with far fewer then available second hand than ICE vehicles), I don't think they expected to be pursued for more money again and effectively transformed back into 'the bad guys' once more.

If you compare an E model with it's equivalent ice version the electric is heavier

You're right, I used the wrong bloody gallons in the conversion. My metric-raised mind isn't good with gallons. Apologies.

So it's actually around 8.5 miles per litre. If 76p per litre is tax, then it's about 9p per mile in tax for an ICE driver.

Re the charge a lot of these cars communicate to the manufacturer to download updates etc. Probably can upload the mileage via the app that you use to turn on the heating/AC etc or you will take it to a dealer once a year and they will download the mileage. Note that it will be made an offence if you don't submit the data. How it will be enforced is another matter. And you can guarantee the next Govt if it is another party will not roll back these charges

Not all cars have apps - and those that do, dont always have features like pre-heating etc.

Whatever BS ideas the inept Govt has at implementing this, it wont work.

Someone could declare zero miles and say they arent driving and can rack up thousands of miles - short of a vehicle inspection, how would anyone know the exact miles driven?

Plenty of black market devices available now that can roll back mileages in seconds.....that'll be a booming black market business for sure.

This country has turned to serious dogshit thanks to the liars at Lie-bour.

I expected to be taxed at some point for having an EV, having not had to pay road tax for several years now. They are heavy and roads need maintaining. It's not really a big deal.

I agree though, we are being penalised for doing the right thing. No governments or companies really care about climate change, it's all greenwashing and screwing as much money out of us as possible.

It will be done through the mot which records the mileage every year already. Personally I have no problem with paying my way to use the roads.

Not a load of bollocks now is it?

If you’ve read the detail on this issue it reads like an episode of the Thick of it. DH is in the industry (I was formerly) and chuckled when he read it.

The reality in the automotive industry is this: Successive govts were warned that a push to EV’s would leave a gaping hole in the public finances where fuel duty was a huge contributor. They all ignored it in a rush to be seen to be green.

Pay per mile is nonsense. Firstly, no, dealers won’t just stop everything and then come and verify your mileage. No dealership has surplus staff or time to do this. You’ll have to pay for this service or they won’t be doing it. Just like you have to do for an MOT (which is only due when your car is 3 years old and a significant proportion of consumers change their car before this so that’s not an option for recording mileage either). Dealers are not the manufacturers so even if the manufacturer is directed to collect the mileage, they have no capacity to do so unless dealers agree. Which they won’t unless they are paid.
Secondly, There is technology/devices in existence already (which are being sold online legally) which effectively stops recording mileage on vehicles. Currently nefarious users use them to avoid mileage penalties on finance agreements. It is the modern day equivalent of clocking a car. They are pretty much undetectable and wipes both their installation and use from the car’s brain so if no one is looking at other signs of wear and tear, these cars end up in the marketplace more valuable than they really are. I expect sales of these gizmos will go up. Is the govt aware of them? No idea, but that’s the issue you have when the govt takes no steps to understand the industry.

Bottom line, you won’t be collecting the money from everyone who should be paying. Just use road tax and apply a levy on public chargers like fuel duty. Charge a premium on home chargers using them at peak times.

EVs are heavier and they use tyres more quickly. Tyre shedding pollution from EV’s is a reality. There is an absolute need for the govt to be pushing tyre manufacturers to produce and compelling automotive manufacturers to fit tyres that shed less particulates. I doubt anyone in govt is looking at/doing anything about that either.

The absolute shit show that this all is means two things, people haven’t done the maths as to see how much it might cost at 3p per mile for full EVs and 1.5p for hybrids, but even if they have, they are annoyed by the principle. DH had many existing EV orders cancelled yesterday by customers even though the charge is not due for several years citing the principle. Owning an EV is more of a ball ache if you do a lot of miles without access to a home chargers than owning a petrol car (I know, I have one) so deincentivising ownership through stealth taxes is madness. Make it all up front.

On the other hand, the only manufacturers who came out yesterday and stated that they would cover the cost of 20,000 miles of pay per mile ownership were Chinese-owned Omoda and Jaecoo. Make of that what you will.

No, can't be right all the time😥

But lets see what will happen, no one so far, let alone the Govt, has come up with how PPM will be collected and given this Govt has U -turned on many things, its very likely to be reversed.

The tax isn't due for another 3 years & subject to consultation.

I still think the end result will be increased VED on EV's

Yes this is one of the taxes I was utterly baffled by, particularly because hybrids will somehow cost less than EV. Make it make sense.

It’ll be another ‘jam tomorrow’ tax. Labour won’t be introducing half of these tax raises just before the GE. Unfortunately it is all smoke and mirrors and peak batshittery. It’s obvious to anyone that an increase in income tax was required. The govt has taken the same amount of flak in not raising IT as it would’ve in raising it.

I read somewhere that to raise the £26bn Reeves has done would require a 3p increase income tax.
That would wreck our consumer/services based economy.

EV's are mad, tax payer funded subsidies, targets for local manufacturers, punishable by fines, which the Chinese don't have to meet.

Its a Nissan Leaf, it's not a big car