Labour isn't working - Thread 17

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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I've said this before, but I get vetted because my SiL is in the RAF. She can't pass her security clearance unless I also pass the checks!

@NoWordForFluffy yes, I had a friend who had to supply my name for a check. They didn't ask me anything but I presume they looked at my records. I have noticed that when I've been to Parliament they have some kind of pre-vetted list. I genuinely thought I'd be removed from it during lockdown because I was known to be very against it and had a lot of correspondence with the local MP. But he didn't blacklist me because I was invited something in 2021. I didn't go. I don't want anything to do with it anymore.

I read a book about branding and it covered the whole new labour thing and Alistair Campbell. One thing he did, which was apparently really important, it was to make sure there was a wall chart up showing exactly what kind of campaign events were going on in what area of the country. This to me seems like the most basic stuff. Yet it warranted mentioned in this book. Maybe that's the fault of the author, but it was quite a good book.

Re - the football match - I think the 17-year-old arrested for breach of the peace was Young Bob. Arrested at Epping for no reason, released without charge but there were some bail conditions which I think were not realistic or reasonable, much like Graham Linehan.

I do realise there are issues with this kind of reporting (citizen) but I think it's possible that he walked into a trap. Either the police wanted to arrest him - seems completely mad given what happened with Tommy Robinson earlier this week - or perhaps the chap who invited him to have a debate was not as friendly as he initially seemed. I do hope it's not the latter. However, there is any number of people in that crowd who would complain about young Bob and decide that he's a horrible right wing nutter and therefore they will think he deserves to be arrested for something.

I also saw someone trying to live stream with a headline about trouble - then I clicked on it and lots of people were saying "oh it's peaceful, that's good". But that's just clickbait I guess.

I obviously don't want there to be any trouble, but I suspect there will be trouble later.

Sorry about my punctuation, I'm having trouble with the site again so I can't be bothered editing because the page will crash again

What a bunch of vile, narcissistic, incompetent, hypocritical, egomaniniacs. Look at how smug and happy they look hobnobbing with the 'elites'.

Why did they all have to go? Surely Prince William and one politician would’ve been enough?

Exactly

None of them have to go

It's just a way of saying that they're allowed to go everywhere but they don't want us doing it.

True. It’s look at us living it up while you lot stare down tax rises and change for the climate

Performative wankers.

😂

Why do you think when Reform get in it would adversely affect your son????

This! It is horrific. Recent typical thread on here where couple want to to divorce/both already on benefits for ‘mental health’ can’t afford two houses from the v equity of their house sale, but still assume they are ‘entitled’ to extra ‘help’ and posters encouraging them, rather than they that they actually can’t affirdto divorce. But their expectation is that it is their ‘right’ at everyone else’s expense. The entitlement and ‘benefit’ means that families have needing temporary and disposable
when a couple get bored with each other.

Let’s hope

And yet you still see people trotting out the line that 'we need hundreds of thousands of immigrants to fill the jobs'

It seems that people hear something that sounds plausibly clever at some point in their life, and file it in the 'my opinion about <this controversial subject>)' slot in their brain, and then just spout it without ever thinking about it again, regardless of evidence.

Worse, they assume they are cleverer than other people because they hold that opinion without ever really thinking about it.

@LupaMoonhowl

I read the ReformUK education manifesto and it’s all about introducing more pupil referral units and segregating off the ‘unfit’.
My son copes well with school, is happy, quiet, never misbehaves and can keep up with the work. However the bias he already receives because he has an EHCP is horrific. Schools see the plan and think ‘no thanks’ and try to offroll.

If ReformUK get in this will be worse and councils will support the offrolling more than they do already.

ReformUK will not be funding the referral units further than a place to offroll the ‘unfit’. They will focus on funding the ‘fit’.

@LupaMoonhowl
My son’s only chance really is Labour as there is -at least - a vague attempt to
support inclusion.
If they lose next election (likely) - we’re fucked.

@LupaMoonhowl

I don’t think It’s ‘Labour’ that the problem. It’s us. Society. I think Covid was the trigger for everyone to focus on their individualism and stop living communally. It had a massive financial impact and resources are scarce - leading to everyone out for themselves.
I think we need to start living communally again and caring for others. That’s the biggest issue and where society is failing. We’ve gone ‘survival of the fittest’ and it’s ‘us’ that needs to change.

But the Labour educational reforms are signalling the erosion of ehcps in mainstream schools completely, aren't they? Because it is costly and difficult to maintain. I'm not sure, unfortunately, that Labour can be relied upon to hold the current status quo.

What are EHCPs and why is Labour bracing for a backlash over its overhaul plans? share.google/obO8nZPuqHEBLpzy5

Labour’s inclusion isn’t working either. We have children, at primary level, who we cannot exclude as the MAT does not believe in it. We have children who are clearly in the wrong provision but inclusion…Only been back to school a week and so far my colleagues and I have been: spat at, hit, kicked, punched, classrooms trashed, chairs thrown at heads, threatened with bats and poles, classroom and outside fittings destroyed, crying children evacuated from classrooms because of the level of aggression and fear.

Yet the school is told that mainstream is a suitable placement and the funding reflects that. There isn’t enough money and these children and every other child are being failed because…inclusion. It’s not working for many, many children and something does need to change.

@Upstartled

EHCP’s are an absolute joke and I wish I’d never applied for one. I agree that there needs to be a massive overhaul. Schools were more inclusive before the rise of EHCP’s . They need to be radically overhauled and made simpler.

@Legolava

I worked in a school 20 years ago in an extremely difficult area. We had a phenomenal, powerful head and we never had an exclusion and I never experienced those behaviours. She was watertight with behaviour but loving and caring. She also didn’t spend all her time in meetings or tucked away in an office.

@Legolava

I’d say all those behaviours in children are symptomatic of an unhappy society that is failing. I think that’s on ‘us’ and our rampant individualism exacerbated by Covid.

So, you think that we should have more inclusion in schools, but surely we need something better than the illusion of inclusion achieved at the expense of pulling the rug out from under those children for whom echps do work in mainstream schools? The abandonment of which will frogmarch some children unnecessarily to specialist provision and others to navigate the school system without that costly help.

What does that look like in practice though? How are we funding it?

Things are different now. It’s a national issue. The level of need has rocketed. The level of entitlement has rocketed. This level of behaviour is now normalised and justified because SEND. Oh it’s just them regulating, oh it’s unmet need, it’s xyz. To an extent some of it is true as there just isn’t the staff, funding, capacity in mainstream to meet the ever increasing need. Some of it is justifying extremely violent behaviour because. These children have to function in society. If they are behaving like this at primary level, we have a crisis unfolding.

The main reason for teacher attrition now is behaviour and parents. Not pay and not workload. Parents often justify this behaviour. They only want what they perceive they are entitled to. There are no boundaries, there is no support of the education system. Read any thread on MN for that.

I see the system from both sides as a parent who sits on my own child’s ECHP meetings. The mainstream system is overloaded. Blanket inclusion has failed due to chronic underfunding and unmet need. Children and staff are facing extreme violence every day and ALL children are paying the price.

@Upstartled

I don’t know one person who is ‘happy’ with their EHCP or the communication they get from council. I know an enormous amount of people who are incredibly unhappy. As highlighted in the recent Panorama documentary, the recent collection of shoes representing failed children. My son’s friend was excluded unlawfully at age 5 and has now been without a school place for 6 months. 2 other children have been excluded from my son’s original class / plus an attempt to offroll my son before he started. The excluded child would have been included in the school I worked at 20 years ago because the head would have worked damn hard to manage his behaviour and she would have sorted it.

I also don’t think he would have been diagnosed. She would have addressed the environment before assuming he had an internal ‘fault’ that can’t be solved.