Labour isn't working - Thread 16

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5433563-labour-isnt-working-thread-15?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Adding 2p across the board to income tax and taking it off basic rate NI - which I think may be the plan - would actually benefit basic rate tax payers (because of the different thresholds) and put the burden squarely on higher tax payers, pensioners and investors.

The irony isn't lost on me that people whose maths isn't up to understanding that are likely to be basic rate tax payers: ie those who will benefit.

Poor comms, Labour!

Ha. Yes I heard this a few days ago. Its laughable. Apparently the definition of a working person can mean whatever Labour want it to mean.

Don’t you think if they do more weasel manoeuvres like reducing the higher rate threshold and claim they’re not putting up tax rates when the effect
is more tax is paid, they’ll simply be further along the road to electoral suicide.

That’s because most of the electorate are fiscally illiterate.

OMG that is outrageous!

It’s always the same. They’re doing exactly what we should have expected. Modifying language to suit their purposes. Like the gender woo arseholes.

‘But what was far more insidious, he argued, is that through their own particular uses of existing words, over and over again in their propaganda, speeches, and publications, they changed the meanings and contexts of these taken-for-granted words of the German language.’

Excellent article on language manipulation of the masses, here:

https://fee.org/articles/would-be-tyrants-capture-language-to-control-thought/

What a load of rot. I can’t stand the lies and gaslighting the most.

They are snivelly, supercilious and revolting. Tg for this thread is all I can say.

If it's true and they lower the threshold I will just make sure I don't get a payrise. My employer would be fine with that and I will look at alternate things eg working 4 day week etc.
I am determined not to give these twats 1p more than is necessary.

Yep. Many of us have some control over our salary. I can pay myself whatever I like. You can reduce hours etc. Another unintended consequence.

They’re really going to tell anyone earning over £45k they’re not a working person.

What 1984 nonsense is this. We can’t just say yeh to that. It’s utter madness.

Yeh the IFA we saw about how to use DHs redundancy payout gave me some good advice on how to offset

That's scary 😬

You are so right!

My husband is meeting with his FA next week. A very high earner, but PAYE. He is definitely paying more than his fair share but he is done. Looking at best options, I think he’s going to drop days and when the children are done retire early. There are many people in his field who are considering the same. They aren’t bankers, they are in a demanding field and are often head hunted from abroad. They have skills the economy needs.

I hope that all the fair share basic rate payers and non-workers are all ready to step up to the burden of higher earners changing behaviour. They are already, hence issues with Drs and dentists.

‘The core social concept in traditional Marxian political economy has been the notion of the “class struggle.” Society is divided into two main “social classes” defined as and identified by whether an individual is or is not an owner of the means of production. If he is such an owner, then he is a member of the capitalist “exploiting class.”

If he is not such an owner, then he is a member of the exploited and oppressed and victimized workers’ class.’

From the article I linked above. About control through moderating language. Obviously Starmer is using the term ‘working person’ to manipulate the electorate.

Yes. I was going to add a warning before reading it but then thought we’re all grown ups here!

Yes, but even worse than that, right? Because they're not even dividing us into the "exploited" non-owners and "exploiting" owner classes, ownership at least has a distinct definition. They're dividing normal working people as "good deserving" and "bad to be bled dry" by redefining "working"!

Yes!! I agree, so grateful to this thread and being able to discuss the issues without the old accusations from those that must be obeyed. Such a relief from those bad old days! Thanks again @TheNuthatch - and everyone here!!

I'm not fully caffeinated yet Rex 😂

Got it in one. Exactly. And also meanwhile of course, get us non working people (for what else are we if we’re not working people) to pay for the whole bloated welfare state, education, health care etc etc etc. Mind blowing.

Same, same. Makes mn so much better.

Yeh you're right.
I know a nurse who earns over £45K. What's the median income atm? I think it's around £36K, so we're not talking about wealth here.

And Shafik.

Another out-of-touch academic/technocrat.

100%

We are aligned - I started last summer and have mitigated my liability to the max. The issue now is, I can do little more, unless I retire, and even then, I cannot escape a lot of the exposure.

For many I think the binary choice will be - spend it whilst you have control of it, or reduce consumption as much as possible, and simply ride out these imbeciles. That depends on factors such as age, whether DC still in school etc.

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”