Labour isn't working - Thread 15

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5430868-labour-isnt-working-thread-14?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Mine is taking ages to load then jumping around. It's a new phone. I've cleared the cookies out. No difference.

Ages to load for me as well

Yeah..really slooooooooow to load. Laggy as hell.

Sorry, I wasn’t being sarcastic. Genuinely wondering if the sudden change was something that had been indicated but not picked up on due to cutbacks in funding/staffing or if it was just, um, a sudden change.

@Legolava there's been a gradual buildup of rhetoric against people who are successful and have money as a result, or also people who have family money. I think if you look through our history, this probably goes in swings and roundabouts but we do seem to have hit the point where people are very resentful and just want to take it away. However, I am conscious that left-wingers tend to be much more vocal.

To that end, I am surprised by @Nolletimiere comment about it being good that Rishi had more understanding about money and the economy. My impression was that he actually counted against him that he'd married into a billionaire family.

I thought Rishi Sunak was okay. Haven't been impressed by politicians generally over the years but he seemed to have his head screwed on and his heart in the right place.

Sunak had a better understanding of the economy, and its interplay with politics, because he had worked at GS and in hedge funds etc., as opposed to the Labour cabinet - not one of whom has any experience or acumen when it comes to finance - and let’s face it, it’s always about money.

As to his father in law’s wealth - yes, it was used against him, because there are a lot of bitter and envious people out there. Sunak made errors, of course - including the timing of the GE, but he was hamstrung by the May and Boris legacy, Tory infighting and a stale electorate etc.

If you offered me Sunak now, I would take him in a heartbeat.

Sunak's tenure is starting to look like a golden era in hindsigh

I always found him personable and sensible.

@Nolletimiere I don't know how it would translate in polling, but I got the vibe that people were unhappy about his wealth or his family wealth or his in-laws wealth!

@SpaceRaccoon mum and I were both very unwell at different points throughout his time so when I was starting to pay attention, I was a bit taken back at how disliked he seemed to be. I can't remember any actual disasters, but there probably were some. The only thing I remember was the PR fail with the "we didn't have sky TV"thing.

I'd take Sunak back in an instant! This bloody lot are utterly clueless.

No problem! Yeah, my best guess is it's just down to freaky weather and not funding.

I liked Sunak, he was a pretty good PM and it's only retrospectively I have realised how decent Hunt was as a Chancellor. I certainly wasn't counting down weeks to budgets with a growing sense of dread.

I can’t keep up with these threads! Place
marking.

i’d like to have seen what Sunak and Hunt would’ve done - the point in the times column that both Sunak and the IFS make relentlessly is that we have so much debt and so much debt interest that £19 bn is pretty much the standard error for forecasts.

ooooh is it Monday? Still a lot of time for budget speculation left…

Interesting to read the reflections on teaching. I live in a pretty average village in Wilts, and 2 men I know who are high earners (both in absolute terms but for our village too) have wives who work as part time primary teachers 3 days a week. I always think that it wouldn’t take too much to tip these women into leaving - they could afford to, and it’s an increasingly thankless and exhausting. This must be replicated across the country. I am also a qualified teacher but don’t think I’d return for all the tea in China.

One can perhaps understand why people choose private school for their DC.

I know two non practicing qualified primary teachers from my small circle - both left as the hours were too long and they no longer felt they were making enough of a difference with all the challenges.

Hi all. Been following these threads for a little while, I have found them really educational re keeping abreast of the politics so thank you to the regular posters who are finding articles.

I do have a question though. I’ve always voted Labour - was 18 in 1997 and voted for Blair - except for the year there was a Tory/LibbDem coalition). I grew up in poverty and I’m not sure I would be where I am today without going to uni for free/bursaries etc. I’m a teacher too (like some other posters). My question is, how would life be better now if the Tories had won the last election? I maybe naive but I don’t feel my life is any worse. Teaching is very tough - but has been since the Gove years. I was pushed down the stairs when I was pregnant but that wasn’t under Labour. Took years for an autism diagnosis for my son, not under Labour. I do worry for the future. E.g. not sure I can keep teaching to 68 (my current retirement age). Could retire at 58 but not sure can afford it, but those worries I would have under any government I think.

Hope this post doesn’t come across as “I’m alright Jack”. So for someone like me (middle aged teacher, 2 kids in a comp, lives in a deprived area - pretty average I guess!), how would the Tories improve life? I maybe convinced to vote Tory again!

(And sorry for the long post!)

Indeed. A couple locally who are both teachers are moving to Italy to teach in a private international school so I've been told. Maybe it's one of those satellite schools we were discussing a few threads ago.
Just more proof, if it were needed, that this country is well on a downward slide and a lot of the blame can be pointed directly at this government.

HI there.

I am keen to give your post the proper response it deserves, but in order to do so, I need to ask you one question first.

Why did you vote for Labour in July 24?

And isn’t that the tories current polling problem @MrsMurphyIWish…they need to lay that out. A compelling case can be made that both mainstream parties need to fundamentally reform the state as we’ve been in a slow decline for years. Labour seem to have no ideas.

if anyone wants a laugh, op on the ‘I’d like to sleep with Trudeau’ thread compared Starmer to one of the pigs from animal farm 😂

@Nolletimiere A change. I was really hoping education would improve. The NC is not fit for purpose, constant testing, Ofsted etc. was really hoping for good reform.

Edit: on reflection, blind faith and disillusionment with the status quo at the last election.

Right, you voted for Labour because, in part, you were disillusioned with the Tories - you were not alone. After 14 years, and Brexit, and the pandemic. But you voted for push factors, rather than pull factors, it appears.

Starmer made a number of manifesto pledges, which he has subsequently broken, or is about to break on 26th November. He promised Labour would be held to a higher standard etc., which has proven to be a lie, and all he has done is wage class and demographic warfare on many of us - he so desperately needs growth, and yet the private sector has been hammered.

So, to answer your question - many issues in the UK are structural and not unique to the UK, but Labour have proven themselves to be (i) arch hypocrites, (ii) more incompetent than the Tories, (iii) are held to ransom by the unions and the back benches (which the Tories are not, of course), (iv) and lack an understanding of economics and finance.

Did you agree with imposition of VAT on PS, out of curiosity?

Similar circumstances I guess. I’ve voted for all three parties. At the last election, I did not vote Labour. They had no plan, just it wasn’t the Tories. Their no plan is evidently causing issues. I would rather Rishi stayed. I think there was a lot of envy and racism towards him from the left. He did know what he was doing IMO.

There were green shoots of recovery. In such a short time, they’ve destroyed it. I am fully aware that without the private sector and companies and workers paying extortionate tax, like my husband, there are no state schools and funding. By crushing the private sector and killing aspiration, they are killing state schools.

We are a huge outlier taxing education. That, in my opinion, is unforgivable. As a teacher, education is the key to levelling up. The increase in fees don’t punish the rich, they can afford it. It punishes those with SEND children who are desperate. It punishes people like us, who grew up in poverty and are now doing ok. My children are in a good state school FWIW. People who have done ok for themselves and are now hated as rich, people demanding they lose their privileges and pay more. The people who have worked to level up and want the same for their children. These people can’t absorb the cost. Private education is more elitist than ever. Taxing private education was the biggest hammer blow to social mobility I’ve ever seen. It’s keeping the working class in their place and they have mistakenly seen it as a sucker punch to the rich. It’s shocking.

Ofsted bigger and larger than ever. Schools in deprived areas where there is a real struggle will never get the data they need for secure. Ever increasing paperwork and ridiculous targets. 90% pass for phonics when children arrive at school not being able to use the toilet? Bursaries have been slashed. Secondary specialisms are in crisis. Yet they advertised to much fanfare the new bursaries. Many have been axed or slashed by tens of thousands of pounds.

Labour have always been blindly followed by a lot of the public sector IMO. I think people forget, that without a prosperous private sector, the state sector will always fail. They’ve been left with no choice now, the state sector, including welfare needs to shrink.

Fundamentally, if you’ve listened to labour’s education policies, they’re copying SNP reforms that have driven educational outcomes in Scotland down the plug hole - centralising, reducing choice, taking funding away from specific students to only those with the most need, check that out - teachers in Scotland are increasingly concerned about school violence.

As Alistair Campbell was told by a HT - ‘free’ breakfasts are a poorly targeted anti poverty measure, that’s not an educational policy.

Thanks for the answer!

I was ambivalent to VAT on PS. There’s one person I know who can afford PS and that’s my Head. I was in agreement with the opinions on threads that it was an issue that didn’t impact the majority of society and those who could afford PS, still would (like my Head).

There were 8 (?) education secretaries under the last government and one was in post for 6 weeks. I was definitely voting with “I enjoyed teaching more in the noughties”. I would like to see what the current opposition would do for education.