Feeling such rage at DS7, please help

[DespairInDarkness]

DS' sleep has been awful the last few weeks, waking me every couple of hours or so and it is at the point of feeling like absolute torture now.

Tonighe he woke me at 12 (barely half an hour after I'd fallen asleep), then again at 2 and kept us awake til 4. At that point I'd been on his bedroom floor for 2 hours so decided to go back to my bed. He came back through within 5 minutes and we had to start all over again.

At that point I'm ashamed
to admit I screamed/cried/begged at him to lay down and go to sleep. It took him 40 minutes, he's now asleep and i'm too scared to move, but aching so much lying on the floor. As I was dozing on and off earlier, I had visions of gettiing in the car and speeding up and crashing so I could sleep.

I just want him to not need me, to leave me alone at night, I want personal space, I want to sleep.

I don't need tips on how to help his sleep I don't think as we have tried it all at this point but I need advice on staying sane and not turning into an awful mother.

I've had 2 hours sleep and need to be up for work in an hour, the only thing stopping me from bursting into tears is the fear of waking him

I don't think you need to be firmer. Are things worrying him at night? Or what is happening for him that he needs you so much, have things changed at home in some way or something at school? It is such a weird myth that sleep problems are something that kids grow out of and then they all sleep fine by his age. Look at the amount of adults with insomnia and other sleep issues. It sounds to me that currently he needs you close and night is the time that all the scariest things ( in our minds) tend to make an appearance. Comfort him and be there for him, but clearly you need to find a way to look after yourself too as you have expressed rage and suicidal ideation in this post so are you doing ok generally?

He says he is scared when he wakes but can't say what of. He wakes up in the morning as if nothing happened and cheerfully said this morning "Tonight I won't wake you up mummy!". I think he truly believes it and wants to but something comes over him at night and he just can't do it.

He does have an anxious disposition in general. The spell of good sleep happened during the summer holidays. As soon as school started again, sleep became iffy again. But now it's half term and it is bad anyway.

He does seem to twitch an awful lot, so wakes himself very easily. I do wonder if it's a growth spurt or physical issue sometimes for it to go downhill so suddenly and for him to be so restless even when asleep.

But thank you all, you've helped me work through what my next step should be.

I'm going to put a mattress in his room. I'll spell out a few things for him to try if he wakes before waking us up and if he really has to then i'll go to his room, and he can go on the mattress and I'll go in his bed. He'd been asking us to have the mattress back in our room (how we'd survived the previous bad spell) so at least that's a compromise. He can have it but in his own room, so DS4 isn't inspired to invade our room too.

Hoepfully after a few calm nights knowing he has that option he will naturally start sleeping better.

Sounds horrendous. Do you have a night light or some soothing music for him? Ours comes through sometimes but it's usually he's woken in the dark and not liked it. We put a nightlight and yoto player in there for him to try before he comes through.

Any pattern? If it started at 5 (was this when starting school?), happens for periods and then stops but has started again in the last few weeks could it be school?

We just let them come into our bed. It wasn’t common both DH and I were in it together overnight due to shift work but was super ‘fun’ when we were and after the first 3 would come in. 3 would squish but thereafter, we’d have the ‘you snooze, you lose, go grab your pillow and sleep on the floor’ line. Taking them all back would have been way more disturbing to sleep.

Ours stopped at all different ages, with the latest one being 15yo. They were around 6’ by that time so squishy bed🤣, and they just stopped one night so it does happen. Never lasts forever, no one has adult children sleeping with them 😁.

Can the boys share? Maybe it would help him if he was aware of another body in the room? Help him feel less alone? Two single beds pushed together in one room?

Does he explain WHY he is awake at any given time? As in, what needs is he actually communicating when he comes to get you exactly?

Couldn't both brothers sleep together in one room?
I have a 5 y.o. who still keeps coming to us in the middle of the night, so we have a toddler bed near ours. I don't even know when he comes, he just comes quietly and goes back to sleep there.

The only thing he can say is he's scared and he needs us. When asked what he is scared of he looks really pensive, he tries to figure out but doesn't know. My guess is that is it just an overall anxious feeling rather than anything he is scared of.

It kind of started in Year 1. I think it probably is linked to school but not to any issue with it in particular. He practically runs into school in the morning, loves learning and has lots of friends. He does put a lot of pressure on himself though and really struggles with not being the best at everything. Last year he was getting a lot of accolades and recognition at school, so far this year he's gone under the radar a bit, maybe he's feeling insecure with that.

Also when we've let him join us before, his little brother found him one morning and declared he was going to sleep with us too

it wasn’t “us” in the original post.

so a couple of questions:

why is it only you trying to manage this overnight? Surely your partner should be sharing the load.

if you, as a grown, rational adult gain comfort from sharing a bed with another person, why is a 7 year old (and a 5 year old) expected not to need that comfort?

OK I know you said you'd tried everything but...leaving the landing light on?

I used to feel anxious waking at night in the dark and nightlights didn't do enough to disperse the dark, my parents kept the landing light on at night until I was a teen.

The dark can feel massive and empty and endless, the light from the landing made me feel comfortable and stopped the house feel alien

Weighted blanket? Makes them feel snugged in? Worth a try.

You should also talk to him about waking you and making you tired. He is old enough to understand that you need sleep to be able to do your job because you need the money so cannot lose your job. Get him to imagine if his teacher didn't get enough sleep and couldn't take them out at break time and had to lay his/her head on their desk or the lunch staff were too tired to make lunch. These are people they can relate to.

I’d try putting both boys in together. Probably at the weekend in case it’s a disaster but it might help him feel less anxious if there’s someone else in the room so he doesn’t need to seek you out. My DD also goes through anxious phases occasionally where she doesn’t want to sleep alone but the solution in our house is always a sibling sleepover and everyone sleeps undisturbed. Definitely worth a try!

I would also suggest putting the boys in a room together. He has company, and hopefully seeing his younger brother sleeping through the night will positively influence him.

Tbh OP I would just try not to make a big deal about it. Yes there may be something deeper going on but it’s just as likely to be a 7year old who’s scared at night time. It’s not that unusual. I remember being a young kids and getting scared in the middle of the night, I had no trauma, no school issues, just a kid with a vivid imagination and the quietness and darkness at nighttime was frightening to me, I climbed into bed with my mum and dad and that was that. Didn’t last too long. Kids go through growth and development spurts and sometimes they may sleep more deeply and just sleep right through being less aware of their surroundings other times they may sleep more lightly waking more and giving their brains time to realise they’re alone. Let him climb into bed beside you and your DH can go into his bed so there’s not 3 in the bed, take turns sleeping with him. I think punishing him will just heighten his anxiety, he’ll lie there thinking “I’m scared but mum will be angry if I go to her” waking him up more feeding his fear and anxiety.

Have you tried magnesium supplements?

We were recommended The Sleep Charity website (UK charity) for advice on better sleeping. It has sensible tips, might be worth a look in case there is anything useful to you.

The spell of good sleep happened during the summer holidays. As soon as school started again, sleep became iffy again. But now it's half term and it is bad anyway.

I wondered if it was that.

Even when children are happy and settled at school, for sensitive souls there's still a lot that's new, a lot happening that is outside the familiar, small events with friends. it's different from the relatively predictability of family at home. That can be unsettling, at a level they aren't consciously aware of but they process it in their REM sleep. Eventually it will pass.

Your solution sounds good; honestly, you do need your sleep too, but it sounds like your son also needs the reassurance of your presence at the moment.

Since I last posted, we"ve been using the mattress on his floor. It was going great, he cane to get me, I'd get in his room, no talking, both back asleep in minutes. One day he didn't even come to get me until 4am and I thought I was winning.

Well now it's over. He's kept waking me up tonight (while I'm in his room), demanding I lay down the other way, or turn my head this way or whatever, saying that he is scared. He was dangling his head off the bed so it's right in my face then asked for water, shouted that it was the wrong water. Then tried to leave his room, refused to lay down, said he felt sick etc etc.

This is what happened when we had a bad spell previously and had put a mattress in our room. It went well for a few days then he started waking me up constantly demanding I put my head in a certain position so he could see my face, or asking to reach my hand down so he could hold it. And waking me up over and over if I moved in my sleep.

Now it's happening again. Last time it took weeks of nighttime battles and explaining/writing down rules in the day before it stopped and he finally came in without waking us up.

I can't do this again, I am SO FRUSTRATED and at the end of my tether.

2.30am and i've slept about 30 mins so far. FML.

My 8 year old goes through phases of coming into our bed in the middle of the night. I just let her. Clearly it’s just something that she feels she needs in that moment for whatever reason but it soon settles back down. I’m her mum and if she feels she needs a wee cuddle in the middle of the night, that’s ok. She isn’t going to be doing it at age 16.

Sending hugs. I hope you're back asleep by now.

If not, can you stick on a podcast that's a sleep one, when my DD used to be tossing and turning I'd stick that on and tell her once it was on not to go disturb me. She'd be gone within about ten mins. The balance all and sleep track on there is what I use.

can you tag team out, send in DH? And you go back to proper bed.

Went back to proper bed,, put on sleep hypnosis, and 30 minutes later here he is again. I've checked out and said he has to ask daddy. Took ages for daddy to wake up and he has zero patience so they're just faffing and noone is sleeping.

That sounds horrendous
Could you sleep on the sofa for a few nights? So when he comes into the bedroom he has to wake daddy since you're not there? Or would he just come find you on the sofa 🤔
if his dad sleeps better could he take the mattress on the bedroom floor? DS might be less likely to wake him so much if he gets less reward from it?
have you considered melatonin? You can buy it online and it's a godsend for anxious non sleeping kids but I know many parents are wary since it's prescription only in the UK.
I know he's not doing it on purpose exactly but telling you to change position/waking you on purpose when you're in his room is beyond the normal sleep disturbance so does he get any consequences for it the next day? I think he should have some kind of sanction which might make him think twice about waking you if he knows he will lose something he wants if he does?

@TheBlueHotel yes there will be a consequence tomorrow for that as there needs to be a boundary. Talking about consequences at night distresses him more or he'll say he doesn't care as all he cares about at that moment is getting his needs met at all costs, but I'll explain everything again tomorrow when emotions aren't running so high. It's almost 4am and I've still had no sleep, I just want to cry.

I feel sorry for DS2 who's going to have exhausted parents through no fault of his own, and I hate what this is doing to my relationship with Ds1. We have such a strong bond but earlier I ended up telling him to leave me alone 😪

Just a quick one as I really should be asleep right now but I'm wondering as the sleep difficulties seem a bit cyclical... His sleep habits sound a bit like mine when I was low in Iron and Vit D. Both solved with diet/supplementation.