Is it wrong to ask for money for doing this?

[Suffolksettler]

For context:- My parents are elderly (in their early 80's) and whilst dad is in good health both physically and mentally sadly mum is not. She has various issues including advancing dementia and spends every day sitting in her recliner watching tv or snoozing.

We have carers come in 3 times a day for around 20 minutes each time. Over the last 6 years I have been going round to my parents house (they live just around the corner from me) approx 5 days a week to help. Last year I gave up work to help dad as he was really struggling.

Dad feels trapped, he moans constantly that he has no time to himself but refuses to ask the carers to come more as he says it costs enough as it is. He will not pay for a sit in service as these are usually around £20 per hour. As I say, I go round most week days and often one day at the weekend.

Unfortunately with the cost of living rising I have no choice but to return to work as money is getting tight. I have been offered some work which initially will be two days a week and potentially more at a later date. I really need the money.

Dad wants to go back to golfing on a Friday but unfortunately that is one of the days I will be returning to work so DD17 has offered to sit with mum, make her lunch, let the carers in at 2pm and do some housework and keep mum company, mum is really good and never causes any hassle. Dad will be away from 12.30-4.30. I have suggested that he pays dd £30, this will give her a bit of pocket money, she is at college Mon-Wed. She has been desperately looking for a part time job but to no avail, teen jobs are so hard to find in our area.

However, my dad is moaning and says this is a lot of money and ideally he would like dd to sit with mum on a Thursday as well, for that 'kind' of money. I have said no because a) I already sit with mum on a Thursday whilst he goes food shopping and grans some lunch, b) dd is a college Mon-Wed and needs several days a week to revise and study and c) most paid for sit in services charge at least £20 per hour and they would be strangers, at least mum knows dd and is comfortable with her so surely £30 isn't too much to ask for 4 hours? Dad keeps 'joking' that we are ripping him off!

For what it is worth my parents are very well off with hundreds of thousands of pounds in the bank.

Is it mean of us to ask for this £30 for dd to give up 4+ hours of her time? I am feeling quite guilty that I suggested it now.

Yanbu. He would be getting a bargain, as well as a money-can’t-buy service from someone who actually has an emotional connection to your mum. Tell him it’s a choice between that or paying the going rate to a professional carer.

I'd be asking SS for another assessment.

And paying dd is fair enough.

You need to be less available.

The OP gave up her paid job (which I would never do so totally selfless of the OP) when her father could have actually paid for proper care. It’s the father who is a disgrace. You would think he would actually want to help his grandchild out irrespective of anything else.

I don’t know exactly how it works with attendance allowance but I know from some of my regular patients that their parent carers “work” for them as paid carers as part of the package they have. (I think the ones I’m thinking of have had generous compensation for birth injury type issues and this is part of how their lifelong care is managed). Anyway as pp have suggested it’s worth looking at what allowances are available.

A friend whose husband had a head injury paid her son when he was a teenager to cover some shifts for him. She also paid one of her son’s good friends who was planning a career in medicine. It was a good arrangement, it certainly didn’t cover all his care needs, just certain shifts, he was well cared for by loving relatives/friends and no one was exploited, the lads wanted to do it and it was good experience for them.

I think you have to be tough with stuff like this.

If this were not family people on here would be calling him a CF.

I’m trying to imagine a world in which my own grandparents wouldn’t have tried to pass money over to their grandchildren anyway. Generally happened each time any of us visited them, whether we wanted the money or not.

Ignore the illterate GFs.

I don’t think its dated, just very mean. My parents would be at least10 years older than yours if they were still alive and the only problem any of my DC would have had is not letting their DGPs overpay. My in-Laws. were late 20s born and MiL would have been the same. FiL would have made a quip about prices these days but would have cheerfully paid up. If this goes ahead is your DF the type who will never have the money “handy” when it comes to paying?

Your dad is just a tight arse. Let him pay for a sitting service if he doesn’t want a mutually beneficial deal his granddaughter but remind him which would be better for your mother and his pocket. I suggest your daughter looks for a job where she is appreciated and will earn more and can be sure of being paid if there is the slightest question of him paying up.

edit to add - if he declines and then complains refuse to discuss it with him. He has an option, if he doesn’t like it he can sort himself out.

Tell him the answer is no. She needs a job.

He can pay her £30 for 4 hours work which is £7.50 an hour [and a bloody joke] or he can pay a carer the going rate of £20 per hr or whatever it is. £30 is an absolute bargain.

To be honest, you have to a large extent created this situation by giving up work. I would sit down with him and simply say that financially you can't continue not to work, neither can your daughter. You can work for mates rates or he can pay for help but going forward you can only be there when you have spare time where you can't find employment.

I'd also point out that HMRC are going to have the lot in taxes so he might as well spend it now and enjoy his retirement a little.

Be transparent with your siblings. Especially since you are going to save your Dad money

SS don't want to know. If you have over £23,250 they can not offer any help unless of course someone is being neglected or ill-treated which is not happening to mum, she is well care for.

Unfortunately minimum wage for under 21s is very low. My son is 20 and was getting £10 per hour. But as everyone else has said @Suffolksettleryour dad is su lucky to have such wonderful support from you all. Your suggestion sounded such a win-win.

Is there an Age UK Dementia well being centre near you? Info on the Age UK website. They usually offer a day with lunch- he could drop your mum off then play golf and pick her up on the way back. Costs vary- but it is not free

Mum gets AA but it goes towards the cost of the private carers. My parents are not entitled to any other help due to their savings.

I'm glad you are getting counselling and benefitting from that. It's a great start.

As an aside, it looks like Mum might need nursing home care either now or very soon. Since it will have to be privately funded based on what you've said, I wonder what would happen if Dad absolutely refuses to pay for that. Would anyone know?

Hoping things improve and you get on well in your new job.

Yeah my PIL say this too. (Unfortunately it gave me boundaries but my partner is in the same position as you!) Its a get out clause.
You say it has broken you - but what I see here is an incredible woman who has not prioritised herself (and needs a spa day with a book!) and has managed to carry the can by herself for a long time with love for her mum. And simultaneously raise a daughter who is willing to look after her nan!! I mean bloody hell - give yourself some credit here! You have recognised there's a problem with how you are perceiving it and have also gone to a therapist to try to untangle it and do a bit of CBT.
Baby steps lovely. Small steps working on yourself. This week - 45 mins in a coffee shop or elsewhere not looking after anyone or running errands.

@StewkeyBlue "He’s expecting a lot of free labour from the female family members in order to swan off and enjoy his golf, isn’t he?"

THIS, A HUNDRED TIMES THIS!

I think he should want to give his GD a bit of money so that he can go off golfing knowing that his wife is being well looked after by someone who loves her.

And some housework thrown in to boot!

I presume that he can't or won't do the care that your mum needs otherwise the cost of carers 3x a day could be diverted elsewhere!

Mum is double incontinent following a fall and hospital stay in the summer, this is her new normal sadly and why we have carers in throughout the day. Before the fall I would take mum toms day centre twice a week and day had two afternoons to himself but the day centre can not offer that level of care, sadly none in our area can.

Wrong. Ss will do an assessment. Yes he still has to self fund but they can assess whether she's getting her needs met. Will this be so if you go back to work ft eventually?

Not mean at all unless she never visits her Nan without money. It's a regular slot, every week, week in and out, with jobs attached.

I'd probably say to your Dad - it's not ENOUGH money, and a carer would be £80 for this period (and that doesn't include x or y, and it could be with someone random). So if you want DD for the period, it will cost x at family rates.

Can your DD sign up or look to sign up to a carer agency? Are various options (I don't really know which).

IF DD does this I would suggest -

• don't set the rate at £30 but at NMW for her age. So it's fine for now (£7.55 ph) but it goes up to £10ph on her 18th birthday
• you coach her heavily - and your dad - about this moaning about the cost. Unless he magically transforms she will have to be able to deal with his sniping without you there to support. Is this fair on her? Is she robust enough to handle it without it affecting her self worth? Would he be setting her to do other little tasks to "get his money's worth", including but not limited to things that he wouldn't ask of a paid carer?
• be aware that under 18s are not allowed to do personal care in care homes etc

I don't think it's a great idea TBH. It doesn't bring her many of the social benefits of having a job and even with the pay, risks putting a caring obligation on her that would be better avoided. I would worry her grandad is very much taking her for granted and begrudging her the money and that is a bit of a toxic start to her working career. You'd need to really get an understanding from him that paying NMW is in no way a rip off. It's literally the smallest amount someone can legally pay!! If he doesn't show a real change of attitude on that then no, she is not available.

You sound like a lovely mum and I'm so pleased you are putting your foot down. Sometimes it is easier to fight these battles for others than for ourselves. Whatever obligation you feel yourself, it doesn't pass to her. His golf is not more important than her time because she is a younger, female relation.

I think the difference is that if you pop round to see your Nan on an ad hoc basis, with no expectation, then it is a normal family visit. If you have verbally contracted to be there for a set time on a set day, and you fulfil that contractural obligation, then you should be paid for your time.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your kind words.

But this is what I’m saying about conflating different issues. Other people are being paid to do the stuff that warrants being paid for. Your daughter would only be having a normal grandmother/granddaughter interaction. The only reason you and she are asking for money is because she needs a job anyway. What she’s doing doesn’t deserve payment, it’s just visiting a grandmother.
I don’t know the wider situation here, I’ve seen mentions of another thread. And I fully understand your stress, I am currently trying to manage a full time job with caring for my elderly sick mother, it’s mentally and physically exhausting. But in this scenario I can understand why your dad is reluctant to pay your daughter. She should look for a genuine paid job and just visit her grandmother when she wants to see her or wants to help out.

They’ve got hundreds of thousands in the bank. You need to be direct and stern with him and tell him that he’s being tight and it’s unacceptable.

Your mum deserves a certain level of care and you shouldn’t have given up earning an income to support two people who could more than afford professional help.

Mum is double incontinent following a fall and hospital stay in the summer, this is her new normal sadly and why we have carers in throughout the day

Oh that is sad.

Are there any care homes that do respite for a day?