Is it wrong to ask for money for doing this?

[Suffolksettler]

For context:- My parents are elderly (in their early 80's) and whilst dad is in good health both physically and mentally sadly mum is not. She has various issues including advancing dementia and spends every day sitting in her recliner watching tv or snoozing.

We have carers come in 3 times a day for around 20 minutes each time. Over the last 6 years I have been going round to my parents house (they live just around the corner from me) approx 5 days a week to help. Last year I gave up work to help dad as he was really struggling.

Dad feels trapped, he moans constantly that he has no time to himself but refuses to ask the carers to come more as he says it costs enough as it is. He will not pay for a sit in service as these are usually around £20 per hour. As I say, I go round most week days and often one day at the weekend.

Unfortunately with the cost of living rising I have no choice but to return to work as money is getting tight. I have been offered some work which initially will be two days a week and potentially more at a later date. I really need the money.

Dad wants to go back to golfing on a Friday but unfortunately that is one of the days I will be returning to work so DD17 has offered to sit with mum, make her lunch, let the carers in at 2pm and do some housework and keep mum company, mum is really good and never causes any hassle. Dad will be away from 12.30-4.30. I have suggested that he pays dd £30, this will give her a bit of pocket money, she is at college Mon-Wed. She has been desperately looking for a part time job but to no avail, teen jobs are so hard to find in our area.

However, my dad is moaning and says this is a lot of money and ideally he would like dd to sit with mum on a Thursday as well, for that 'kind' of money. I have said no because a) I already sit with mum on a Thursday whilst he goes food shopping and grans some lunch, b) dd is a college Mon-Wed and needs several days a week to revise and study and c) most paid for sit in services charge at least £20 per hour and they would be strangers, at least mum knows dd and is comfortable with her so surely £30 isn't too much to ask for 4 hours? Dad keeps 'joking' that we are ripping him off!

For what it is worth my parents are very well off with hundreds of thousands of pounds in the bank.

Is it mean of us to ask for this £30 for dd to give up 4+ hours of her time? I am feeling quite guilty that I suggested it now.

That must really sting. It underlines that he is not grateful for what you do. It's complicated because yes it's worse for him, and he didn't ask for this, but what a lot of burden he adding to you with this attitude. I am reminded of advice given to small children in the 80s - if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

I'm glad you're getting counselling.

You are absolutely not being unreasonable. I think its a win-win. Your Dad gets time for his golf, your mum gets some time with her granddaughter, and your daughter earns some pocket money. I think £30 for 4 hrs is a very reasonable rate.
OP my Dad (age 95) is the same in that he balks at paying for any extra help, risking having a fall as he tries to do everything himself. I know many of my friends have aged parents who have the same attitude so I definitely think its an age thing - they just haven't caught up with current pay rates despite the state pension having increased in line

Your daughter is a sweetie for offering.
But charging money to look after family is ridiculous.
Also, if your dad was the sick one and your mother was the healthy one, would she be moaning so much about how hard she has it while being a pain in the arse about it at the same time? Doubt it.

Your daughter is a sweetie for offering.
But charging money to look after family is ridiculous.

The DD would like to get a paying job - clearly if she is spending 4 hours doing some cleaning and looking after her Nan, that’s 4 hours that she can’t be earning. Ergo, DD can’t look after Nan for those hours.

I think golf for the mean-with-money grandfather is reasonable respite for him from caring and will help with community interaction for him after the grandmother with dementia moves to a care home.

I would involve the 17 year granddaughter in discussions about what she should be paid - is she happy to work for £30 for 4 ish hours?

If wanting to keep grandmother with dementia out of a care home for as long as possible is an aim, the grandfather is going to have to spend money on additional care / services at home. There isn't an option for family members to do more care for free.

So if there are carers just one hour a day & Op now working, how much care is the dad actually doing?

If Op's hours are to increase & he was struggling before, won't that put them back to the point where Op gave up work?

I so it is surely untenable?

Have you claimed attendance allowance for your mum? Who ever had PoA, presumably your dad, can use this yo psy your daughter. How much income do you need? Can you give up work again and claim Carer's Allowance?
Your dad is BVU, by the way....

OP has said a couple of times that her mum gets attendance allowance, which contributes towards the cost of the carers.

£30 is not a lot of money, it used to be a decent amount but not any more

Hey op sorry your going through this it must be hard to see your mum so vulnerable. I think your dad is being heartless towards you tbh it’s usually the way the people who have money hate spending it. I think you have already done loads without any kind of thanks. I would go to work and if you can increase your hours do this let your df spend some money on care for his wife especially as it’s more her money. give what you can without destroying your own life and health I know most kids go see parents if there not well but it’s ok to give yourself a break your mum probably wouldn’t want you out of pocket or suffering but unfortunately she can’t tell your dad he’s a tight wad but you can start giving him some space and hopefully he will see how much time you have been spending with ur mum. This situation is awful and ignore the posters who are trying to shame you. There not worth the headspace your dd will find something eventually all the shops will be looking for Xmas staff around now.

Stick to your guns and bless you, its the hardest job in the world xxxxxxxx xx

Get a social services assessment and dad a carers assessment for mum evidencing need and ask for direct payments then pay relative this way. Mother would need a financial assessment to establish assessed charge though too and relative would need to be 18 though.

I think 30 for 4 hours is very little money and perfectly reasonable. Don’t feel guilty about it. You’ve been fair and up front and he has a lot of free support. He’s very lucky!

OP has previously said social services are not interested in doing an assessment as the assets are well over the threshold.

Does your Mum get Attendance Allowance and have your parents requested a reduction in Council Tax due to her diagnosis?

If not, I'd become her appointee and apply. I would have the money sent to your bank account and pay your DD out of that. AA is exactly the kind of thing to use for paying for care.

Technically, your Dad doesn't even need to know about it.

Any money ney left over, I would put away for anything else your Mum needs that he refuses to allow or save it for a time when your Mum might need even more care.

Yes, her mum gets attendance allowance, she has said so twice. It goes towards the formal carers already so can’t be used to pay DD.

Plus, I doubt OP could become the appointee (whatever you mean by that!!) to receive the allowance, given the DM has a living spouse with mental capacity

I applied for this for my parents and put it in an account that I have access to as POA.

Then I spend it on things like getting them home cooked food or a decent sandwich from the local bakery or take them.out to lunch.

They don't eat properly unless I do this. They always seem hungry when I put the food down in front of them so I'm glad we have a little bit of money to treat them in their old age and to make sure they've had at least one decent meal each day. Plus it's a nice outing for them.

An appointee is someone who fills in the paperwork for a person who is unable to do it for themselves.

It doesn't have to be a spouse who is the appointee. As long as the appointee acts in the person's best interests. I'd argue that the spouse isn't acting in the Mother's best interests and, given what she said about her Dad, I'd be questioning his mental capacity...

Just out of interest, do you claim Attendance Allowance. It’s not much, but it would help pay for some of the care.

Yep.
Stick to your guns @Suffolksettler . And don't let him make you feel guilty. Your responsibility is to your children, husband and yourself. He is the one who has a responsibility towards his wife.
I'd be inclined to reduce contact a bit too, or at least reduce the time you spend listening to him moaning. He'll drag you down, and you and your family don't deserve that.

@Suffolksettler

Firstly, I’m sorry, your situation sounds incredibly hard.

You are absolutely not being unreasonable. You have supported your family to the detriment of yourself, and it’s not only unappreciated but you are now being judged by people on this thread who clearly think they are morally superior…which is incredibly easy in theory- much less easy when it’s actually your life that’s being eroded…in reality, I have often found that those people who shout so much about how morally superior they are, are usually fucking awful people at their core. If they were so ‘good’ they wouldn’t be offering judgement to someone asking for help.

Our families deserve our love but we do not owe anyone else our life apart from our children. I’m so glad you have said you your kids that you would not want them to do the same for you.

i think you are doing the absolute best you can in the most challenging of circumstances (your father sounds like frankly he needs a dose of reality in terms of what your support has already enabled for him). Plead be kind to yourself and start thinking about what boundaries you might want to redraw. You can still support without it taking over your entire life.

I hope you find a better balance for yourself 💐

If it's a regular time commitment to allow DF to go golfing, with a set day, hours and agreed things she needs to do while she's there, then yes, it's reasonable that she's paid. It's not just popping in for a social visit when both grandparents are there, she's looking after her DGM who can't be left alone and she will be responsible for her welfare.

You shouldn't have to charge, they should offer for DD, . It's not much to ask when the family already give so much time and support. Her dad would be stuffed if they didn't live round the corner.

From the age of 13 to 16 my PIL would pay DDs and DN for doing little jobs for them, like gardening or helping them out with serving food when they have a lot of people round for the various clubs and societies they are involved in. DD2 was even able to put a couple of things on her CV and got her first PT job from that bit of experience.

He sounds an awful lot like my dad! It’s incredibly hard when they have such ingrained views about things. I would just withdraw the offer if he’s moaning about paying her and let him sort out care. I mean this kindly but he probably does need to be less reliant on you. It’s not fair to expect you to give up so much while he’s sitting on a lot of wealth that could make a considerable difference to your mum’s life. It is incredibly selfish.

@Catpiece are you a bit thick ?