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Original poster

If Starmer and Reeves fuck this budget, Labour will be out of power for ANOTHER generation.

304 replies

Ozgirl76 · 15/10/2025 06:20

I was hopeful when Labour came into power - I hoped a calm sensible bunch of economic policies that would help to level things out a bit was on the cards and given that they had so long to prepare, I assumed they would spring into action and at least have some plans.

But now I’m just reading more articles about the huge swing towards Reform and I can’t believe it’s coming to this.

I actually live in Australia but I run a business in the U.K. and we have just had a second term of a very boring and sensible labour government over here who aren’t fixing things yet but they aren’t actively making things worse and I just think, it is possible to have a Labour government who don’t actively hate the richer people, but also are trying to work towards a more equal society.

What do you think is causing the main swing towards the right? Is it all the immigration stuff? Surely that can’t be everything?

OP posts:
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6
daddysgirlnot · 15/10/2025 19:06

Hyperion100 · 15/10/2025 12:05

Everyone very quickly forgets that brexit guided by the Tories left a 40 billion quid a year hole in public finances and that hold has to be filled.

But nobody is allowed to mention that.

👏👏👏👏Agree with you

twistyizzy · 15/10/2025 19:10

daddysgirlnot · 15/10/2025 19:06

👏👏👏👏Agree with you

Show quote history

Except that PP failed to answer my Q on "and how are Labour doing with the black hole?". Reeves said it was 20B in July 24 yet estimations are now that it's 40-50B.
So how exactly are they improving it?

AlternativeView · 15/10/2025 19:13

@twistyizzy no it's worse than that

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Politics
Imfat · 15/10/2025 19:16

I remember when they were in during the blackout's in the 70's. And when Tony Blair was in power.
Absolute shit show. I so much wanted this time for labour to be honest and strong.
How wrong we were in voting this shower in.
Don't think any political party are any good.
Tories - weak
Labour - don't know what they are doing
Liberal - who are they
Reform - god help us.

curiouslycautious · 15/10/2025 19:17

I didn’t vote Labour this time (have done in the past) but I remember the day they won, I was watching Keir’s speech outside number 10 and feeling just a smidge of excitement and emotion - maybe they would surprise us all and genuinely turn the country around. Obviously no one was expecting that to happen overnight but I was particularly interested in his promises about creating a new energy company (was it Great British Energy) and finally investing into areas that really needed a cash and morale boost. Maybe I voted for the wrong party? If so, and Keir proved me wrong, I was happy to admit it.

But nope, after the champagne/fuzzy start, it just seemed to quickly descend into one PR nightmare after another. He’s made decisions, reversed decisions and increasingly looks small and bewildered. It just seems to me that he’s fighting to survive rather than fighting for the needs of the country. The man who stood in Downing St on that first day is a million miles from the man who was effectively pushed out of the way by President Trump in Egypt a couple of days ago.

I recently returned from an extended stay in the US. I had quite a few politics discussions and everyone seemed to have share the same view - Keir is a weak man and the UK is being ‘over-run’ by illegal immigration. Whether that’s true or not is another discussion but that seems to be the perception of him in the US.

Flyingintotheunknown · 15/10/2025 19:19

Tigerbalmshark · 15/10/2025 19:05

I wasn’t expecting miracles from Labour. I am well aware the country’s finances were fucked by 15 years of Tory austerity, and that the Tory party managed to just ship just as the wheels started to fall of the economy.

I just wasn’t expecting quite so many unforced errors and u-turns. Have a policy, stick to it. Be proactive not reactive. It really feels like they are just reacting to reform and have no actual ideas of policies themselves. It makes you pine for the glory days of John Major or Theresa May, and I did not like or vote for either of them at the time.

And Wes Streeting is a sly little weasel. He definitely should not be the next pm.

Did you really think that a party with a stoic, lifeless leader with only one facial expression and doesn’t even look human and refused to answer questions when asked would be someone who you could take seriously and that he’d be fit to run the country?

Flyingintotheunknown · 15/10/2025 19:22

daddysgirlnot · 15/10/2025 19:06

👏👏👏👏Agree with you

Show quote history

How? The 20bn black hole somehow became a 50bn black hole within the space of the year that the labour government had been in power. Yet they carried on blaming the tories for this massive black hole increase despite labour being the ones in power during this 30bn increase 🤔

dropoutin · 15/10/2025 19:26

Menopausalsourpuss · 15/10/2025 18:56

Yes well your comment is technically right but doesn't add anything to the conversation as its irrelevant now.

Show quote history

So presumably the claim that I was debunking didn't add anything to the conversation either, as any evidence challenging it could just be written off as in the past and therefore "irrelevant now".

It's pretty spectacularly circular to claim something has "never happened", and then reject any evidence to the contrary because it was in the past!

curiouslycautious · 15/10/2025 19:28

Flyingintotheunknown · 15/10/2025 19:22

How? The 20bn black hole somehow became a 50bn black hole within the space of the year that the labour government had been in power. Yet they carried on blaming the tories for this massive black hole increase despite labour being the ones in power during this 30bn increase 🤔

Show quote history

I’ve been looking into this idea of a ‘black hole’ and I think it’s just a bit of PR/spin. The UK Treasury constantly tracks revenue, debt and deficits and this is publicly available information. If the Tories had really hidden such a massive deficit, surely there would have been hell to pay? I think this ‘black hole’ has been created by Labour spending.

EasternStandard · 15/10/2025 19:29

curiouslycautious · 15/10/2025 19:28

I’ve been looking into this idea of a ‘black hole’ and I think it’s just a bit of PR/spin. The UK Treasury constantly tracks revenue, debt and deficits and this is publicly available information. If the Tories had really hidden such a massive deficit, surely there would have been hell to pay? I think this ‘black hole’ has been created by Labour spending.

Show quote history

Yes it was post GE spin but now Reeves is up against her own fiscal rules and spending issues.

Menopausalsourpuss · 15/10/2025 19:32

Yes of course they knew about the "black hole" already, they just think we're stupid and will believe their nonsense. Their spending is still in a massive deficit which they have made worse.

taxguru · 15/10/2025 19:37

Menopausalsourpuss · 15/10/2025 19:32

Yes of course they knew about the "black hole" already, they just think we're stupid and will believe their nonsense. Their spending is still in a massive deficit which they have made worse.

And the £20bn/£50bn (or whatever) isn't the entire deficit. It's "excess" deficit over and above the deficit as per Rachel's self imposed "rules". So even if she manages to raise enough extra tax to cover her "black hole", the country is still in deficit, i.e. adding to the enormous debt mountain. No sign/hope at all of actually running a surplus any time soon to try to start reducing the country's debt mountain. We're well and truly utterly screwed.

twistyizzy · 15/10/2025 19:38

taxguru · 15/10/2025 19:37

And the £20bn/£50bn (or whatever) isn't the entire deficit. It's "excess" deficit over and above the deficit as per Rachel's self imposed "rules". So even if she manages to raise enough extra tax to cover her "black hole", the country is still in deficit, i.e. adding to the enormous debt mountain. No sign/hope at all of actually running a surplus any time soon to try to start reducing the country's debt mountain. We're well and truly utterly screwed.

Show quote history

Fucking incompetent doesn't come close

Flyingintotheunknown · 15/10/2025 19:40

curiouslycautious · 15/10/2025 19:28

I’ve been looking into this idea of a ‘black hole’ and I think it’s just a bit of PR/spin. The UK Treasury constantly tracks revenue, debt and deficits and this is publicly available information. If the Tories had really hidden such a massive deficit, surely there would have been hell to pay? I think this ‘black hole’ has been created by Labour spending.

Show quote history

There was never a black hole in the first place Just labour lies to make excuses for raising taxes and fleecing anyone and everyone. Just pure manipulation! Anyone who seriously believes there was a black hole are easily manipulated. Now all of a sudden it’s increased from 20bn to 50bn and they still blame the tories for it despite the tories not being in power during this ‘black hole increase’ of 30bn. All more lies so labour can use it as an excuse to cover up all their fuck ups, over spending and use it as an excuse to fleece everyone at the upcoming budget and grab even more money!

Sonnet · 15/10/2025 19:43

Bigpinksweater · 15/10/2025 10:06

There are a series of incredibly urgent extreme measures that now need to be taken to rescue us from sliding into the economic abyss. We have been overspending well past our means for decades, and 8 million immigrants since the Millennium hasn’t been enough to ‘fill key roles’ apparently. Our entire system is running like we’re paying off a loan shark - the more we pay the more we pay and the more we pay, without a thought as to whether we can afford it.

Labour got the public addicted to benefits and feeling like work is optional rather than something they need to do to survive. We have ever growing numbers of people who have got inside their own heads and checked out of society due to ‘anxiety’ or neurodiverse conditions, who want instant and incredibly expensive support which is far from guaranteed to even have much of an effect. Skyrocketing numbers of SEN children needing benefits, school placements costing tens of thousands a year, and taxis. Everyone seems to want diagnosing with something or be pushing for investigations into fairly nebulous symptoms. They just blame billionaires if you bring this up.

We need a party who aren’t afraid to make radical and unpopular changes with the understanding fixing these issues will take a good 10-15 years to see any kind of change.

We need to slash benefits, end unemployment benefits after 6 months, deny benefits entirely to able bodied under 25s, and instil a notion that being expected to move or travel for work is not a human rights breach.

We need to aim for net negative numbers in immigration and cap student visas to only the brightest students. We have far too many universities so if they go bust who cares.

We need to urgently examine council budgets so they’re not just a social care tax. It isn’t reasonable to spend half the budget on the elderly and SEN.

No requirements for new mums should stop once the free hours kick in. It should be the norm to work rather than claim.

Harsher policing and stop treating everyone as ‘vulnerable’. A 6ft crackhead screaming abuse is not ‘vulnerable’. Cells where drunks and druggies are thrown into for a week to dry out after making a nuisance of themselves, rinse and repeat if needs be. Sick of lunatics on spice staggering around our town centre threatening young people, the elderly and women.

Economic policies to create growth rather than just tax tax tax.

This….
do you fancy the job as PM

AlternativeView · 15/10/2025 19:45

Re the black hole

Having debt as a wealrhy country is normal the problem comes when everything is squashed to pay that debt so inflation rises ,job losses and so on ,less money in everyone pocket and there is no way except contracting .
Debt with a booming economy , low inflation and people earning and spending is a much more positive situation

SquirrelosaurusSoShiny · 15/10/2025 19:45

spoonbillstretford · 15/10/2025 12:55

From the perspective of someone who engages with government regularly in an organisation representing mostly small manufacturing and construction businesses, there is a positive sea change in dealing with the current administration v the old one.

The Conservatives were not interested in business unless it was a FTSE 100 company, finance or accounting or other services based. Boris Johnson said "Fuck business." They tried to smash the industrial sector and as far as they were concerned, we don't make or build anything in the UK any more. If we did, it just went to the lowest bidder and they didn't care even after Brexit whether public money and government contracts went to an overseas company.

This government has already hugely invested in industry and infrastructure and at last we have an industrial strategy and political stability. Yes, they are inexperienced and have made mistakes but more of it is optics rather than substance.

Whereas David Cameron had six years in office before he led us into the most disastrous decision for our country this century by some way: to hold a referendum on leaving the EU based on a simple majority.

It was always going to be a rough ride after 14 years of mismanagement, incompetence, corruption, ideological running down of public services, smashing the state secondary school system with Academies, massively increased national debt, huge political instability, being made a laughing stock of Europe and the world and hugely increased legal and illegal immigration.

And now journalists and self-appointed windbags are bored with stability and five minutes into office the mostly right wing media are gunning for general elections, reshuffles, riots on the streets, and drama that they have had for the last ten years or more and are giving so much airtime to fascist, racist arseholes who would ruin this country completely and depart for another one without so much as a by your leave.

Don't be fooled by the easy words and glib solutions of fascists. We've been here before in Europe: learn from history. And if you want people who are either totally inexperienced, incompetent, narcissistic, wholly unfit for political office or all of the above, look no further than Reform.

Edited

I agree with this 💯

AlternativeView · 15/10/2025 19:48

@spoonbillstretford it was absolutely correct that a referendum was held on a partnership that had morphed from a trading one to shackled legal and social one and political
It was of course correct to give us a vote to say ,do you like what this has become.

And the people said ; no.
That's democracy

Maybe on fifty years if the eu has actually become a success and is something worth being a part of ,we can vote again.

EasternStandard · 15/10/2025 19:50

Flyingintotheunknown · 15/10/2025 19:40

There was never a black hole in the first place Just labour lies to make excuses for raising taxes and fleecing anyone and everyone. Just pure manipulation! Anyone who seriously believes there was a black hole are easily manipulated. Now all of a sudden it’s increased from 20bn to 50bn and they still blame the tories for it despite the tories not being in power during this ‘black hole increase’ of 30bn. All more lies so labour can use it as an excuse to cover up all their fuck ups, over spending and use it as an excuse to fleece everyone at the upcoming budget and grab even more money!

Show quote history

Yep. It really was audacious to push that lie so early on.

AlternativeView · 15/10/2025 19:53

@Bigpinksweater I agree except for the Sen part

However without teachers getting proper sen training and a move to adopt many different types of reading schemes ,different approaches to teaching maths it would save us a fortune down the road .

Most prisoners are illiterate
What does that tell us

Sen support is a fallacy because most support and teachers have no knowledge of what it means to have ADHD or autism so unfortunately many ehcps are meaningless however what they do do is hold the school to account and that's worth it's weight in gold.

DrowningInSyrup · 15/10/2025 19:58

taxguru · 15/10/2025 18:47

Bugger all. A few hundred MPs compared to 60+ million residents in the UK! The amount paid in wages and expenses (and security) for MPs is literally a drop in the ocean. Probably something like 1p per person!

Show quote history

Might make them all resign though. That's worth it's weight in gold.

AlternativeView · 15/10/2025 20:02

I also think most of us would rather we put money to fighting crime and fraud first before hitting the elderly again ?

For instance the millions of ways people who don't even live here claim benefits/ fake English tests to say your English is good enough for a UK uni ,fake marriages ,families , benefits paid to children never here and the NHS literally treating anyone without asking for proof of residence !! When we were in the eu we had a sick child and before treatment we were sternly interviewed our address given and when we got home a bill.

I remember an interview with some NHS staff a long time ago saying it would be a disgrace to ask people turning up if they had a claim to free health care.

Let's close these loop holes first ,let's investigate every obvious place ,Turkish barbers ,delivery places ,l plates bikes before we go after the elderly ?? And any one infrim.

Flyingintotheunknown · 15/10/2025 20:04

EasternStandard · 15/10/2025 19:50

Yep. It really was audacious to push that lie so early on.

Show quote history

A lie they couldn’t keep going. This government and the extremes they have gone to and lies they have told would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious

Menopausalsourpuss · 15/10/2025 21:42

Sonnet · 15/10/2025 19:43

This….
do you fancy the job as PM

Show quote history

I missed that, best comment on here, every word true.

Menopausalsourpuss · 15/10/2025 21:46

I actually think we should pay more to much less mps and would get higher quality not the dross we have now. Eg the leader of Singapore lee kan yuew was on £500k but was extremely effective over 40 odd years and hid legacy is an extremely well run country.