If Starmer and Reeves fuck this budget, Labour will be out of power for ANOTHER generation.

[Ozgirl76]

I was hopeful when Labour came into power - I hoped a calm sensible bunch of economic policies that would help to level things out a bit was on the cards and given that they had so long to prepare, I assumed they would spring into action and at least have some plans.

But now I’m just reading more articles about the huge swing towards Reform and I can’t believe it’s coming to this.

I actually live in Australia but I run a business in the U.K. and we have just had a second term of a very boring and sensible labour government over here who aren’t fixing things yet but they aren’t actively making things worse and I just think, it is possible to have a Labour government who don’t actively hate the richer people, but also are trying to work towards a more equal society.

What do you think is causing the main swing towards the right? Is it all the immigration stuff? Surely that can’t be everything?

👏👏👏👏

Couldn’t agree with you more .

Internal tensions – suspending MPs who rebelled on the two-child benefit cap has left a lot of bad blood inside the party.

I think this is part of the problem with the Labour government. They have too many backbench MPs who are either naive (because huge swathes of them are new) or trouble makers who think they can cause trouble within the party and trojan horse in a hard Leftist government by toppling Starmer. The MP who were suspended did not rebel. What they did was vote against their own party's manifesto just after they had been elected on that manifesto. They voted for a mischief making amendment by the SNP. If you are elected on a manifesto from a party you cannot, on the first vote, vote for another party and expect no consequences. Especially when there was a 3 line whip on it. Otherwise there is no party discipline and no point havingva government majority.

Was the 2 child cap in the manifesto? Labour activists pre-election were saying otherwise but tbf why should they have been believed?

Starmer was a bad pick for DPP which was acknowledged at the time and he had a tenure riddled with scandal. There was no reason to expect any different from him as PM. Imo he only won the leadership election because he was a man - no woman has ever placed higher than a man in Labour.

Not even a superstore is hilarious 😂

Quite…out of the frying pan into a fire run by people who throw oil on it and seem to revel in the flames.

I'm still hopeful they can turn things around but they have a perfect storm of Tory crapness legacy, Brexit, post-Covid, rise of AI, a physically and mentally ill population and the demographic nightmare hitting most European countries. People have to give them a chance and understand that we all need to pay more taxes for decent public services.

I’m surprised he’s a KC. He has as much persuasion and gravitas as a wet lettuce. When he’s sharing a space with Trump, Kier is embarrassing.

Of course because none of their fuck ups are anything to do with Labour are they? It's whack a mole of blaming everyone else 🙄

NI as a separate tax only applied to working people (and their employers) is crazy IMO. It is NOT an ‘insurance scheme’ or pension plan where you pay your money in up front and get it out when you need it, it’s just a tax on jobs. (Note: I’m on the brink of retirement, DH is already retired. We can look beyond self-interest at the interest of the country).

pensioners being more expensive to the state isn’t really the point at all. The question is how to structure an economy that fosters employment, economic growth, inward investment etc for the benefit of those who need it.

I think it’s already too late, Labour won’t get in again and for way longer than another decade. People were pissed and fed up with the tories, but this is a new low.

I am unsure they can turn it round, starmer would need to go, as would reeves, and I’m not sure they’ve anyone to replace them that could do any better. The fact people want reform shows how bad it is now. No one in their right mind would normally think farage would be a better pm, but it’s so dire now, people actually think that.

my take is they had a lot of theories as opposition and then when they took office rushed to implement, and subsequently found it was a terrible mistake, they didn’t know enough. I mean I can’t beleive they’ve stopped all new licences in the North Sea and now we import all our gas. It’s crazy. Energy prices are through the roof. As is everything else to be fair. They have lost control of so much, economy, migration, energy, employment, and it’s spiralling fast.

i think the budget will be the very final nail in the coffin to be fair.

We are already paying higher taxes under Labour. The last budget was said to be a one off tax hike. Said by Reeves that is, so she and Starmer have run out of excuses for more.

@Ozgirl76 i think the swing to the right is the textbook pattern that we’ve seen through history. A combination of people feeling worse off than they were before, looking for someone to blame and then a charismatic individual comes along to whip up more fear and inflame the blaming of others. These individuals build their rise on fear and division. I hate Farage and his ilk but I can’t deny he is a powerful presence and he’s working through the classic steps I’ve summarised above.

i’m a lifelong Labour voter and have also been very disappointed so far. I wasn’t bothered about Starmer being a bit dull - look what happened when a ‘personality’ like Boris Johnson was in charge. It’s just the apparent lack of a clear plan and an ability to execute it in a well managed way that I despair about. I say apparent lack as they may well have a plan, but seem unable to communicate it.

If Boris came back I have no doubt the Conservatives would win again. So that's your choice. Only someone like Boris can keep Reform out of power.

it feels this way is because the change that’s required is enormous. It’s not a case of tinkering and incremental improvements – we need a fundamental change of economic model, from one based entirely on ever-cheaper labour (precarious contracts, immigration), knowledge work (productive like finance, somewhat productive like higher ed, and non-productive like the third sector) and public services, to one which forces increased productivity and enables wages and security to increase again.

The trouble is that it’s not easy to envisage what that’ll be – we’ve followed the easiest, cheapest and most open race-to-the-bottom for so long that we’re locked into that model, so making the transition will be brutal. Do I have faith in Reform to get it right? No, but at least they’re a step towards it in some ways. The old parties can only envisage keeping the ball trundling down the slope a little further.

It’s a real bind. But I think everyone can see it has to happen and soon, so we might as well get on with it.

He’s not even just a ‘bit dull’ he’s a full on narcissist. I can also cope with a bit dull but not someone who is completely wooden and soul-less

The op is posting from a country that dealt with borders over a decade ago. Those policies mean they don’t have the same political push we do.

Col, finances, housing are not that dissimilar between the two. It’s border control that is different and means backlash here.

Not just him though ie Reeves and Phillipson are the same. Robotic, narcissists and completely impersonal

You are correct. They don’t give a shit about the UK, they only give a shit about the power. They are manipulative and will say anything they think will win the support of the public even if it’s a lie. Dismissing their voters while Starmer wants to be seen as the hero on the world stage. Even the other world leaders can see right through him.

Think what you like of Trump, but the video of him shouldering Starmer away from the podium was hilarious.

He knows his political career is over in the UK so is pimping himself out on the world stage to ensure he has a job. Problem is that he's shit at it so no-one takes him seriously on that stage.

He sees himself as some grand international statesman, his barrier is that no-one else does.

Not a Trump supporter myself but I thought that was brilliant!

You only need to watch the video of the peace summit and the way the other leaders were smirking and grinning when Starmer got up to shake Trumps hand and was then dismissed. They despise him.

The fact that he won’t stand down and resign says it all. Yes he knows his career is over so he’s hanging on to it for as long as possible.

Who would you have as his replacement?

All the leaders were smirking a lot during Trump's speech. Maybe they were smirking at Trump rather than Starmer?

I dread Reform and a grifter like Farage coming into power.

Which is why I am so angry at the Labour government (I voted Labour) because their failure plays a big part in Reform's increased popularity.

Starmer and Reeves are totally incompetent, lack a strategy and a vision for the country and are going from one disaster to another, destroying what was left of our economy.

Reeves especially is so obviously completely clueless and unable to do her job. This budget is going to be another disaster.

Meanwhile it is us the general public who are suffering from these people's complete lack of direction and ability.

Starmer should sack Reeves after her next calamitous budget and start again with real Labour policies and a chancellor who actually understand the economy and businesses.