Is Anyone preparing/hunkering down for 'after the budget'

[IsUnemploymentRising]

The news is today seems to be full of headlines such as unemployment is going up, housing markets are softening, budget is make or break.

Lots of people such as Andrew Bailey quoting things like markets could crash due to debt and AI bubble etc

I just don't see how RR or anyone else for that matter can get us out of our current situation without considerable cutbacks and pain.

Raise Taxes - lots of people think this is maxed out now with rich leaving and businesses already hit (thus rising unemployment)

Cut Benefits - will they try this again. If so what will all the people on benefits actually do to live. Will they all get jobs. Is there jobs?

So are you hunkering down?

Me personally I wish they would just get on with it. I hope to move house in next few years and whilst I'm still committed to it I can see another frozen housing market coming where only forced sellers sell and everyone else sits tight.

I'm retired (although not getting any pensions yet as too young) and definately worried about pension values (ie stock markets, bonds etc). It's very difficult to plan when your pensions are dependant on things outwith your control. (not applicable to those with final salary/defined benefit schemes of course)

State pension is a good 14 years away for me (I'm fully paid up) but I worry it will be eroded when I have built it into my calculations for retirement not to mention the freezing of tax brackets which means we are all getting taxed more each year by stealth.

I'm probably in a better position that many to weather the storm as no mortgage or debts and holding cash etc but even then I worry about our currency being worth nothing soon if they go down the route of printing money again.

Am I being overly pesimestic. I mean how are they actually going to get us out of this. For those on benefits (apart from worrying, being scared etc) how will you actually cope if your benefits are cut.

But then health insurance costs either come out of the employers pocket (a tax on business as much as NI is) or, especially in the case of lower incomes, out of the governments pocket (so tax payers). Or some of the insurance is paid privately by citizens, which is money from your paycheck the same way tax is. Also, I had to have medical care in Germany and because of my insurance provider paid the bills which they then refunded. The bill I paid was way less that you would think, because a large chunk of the cost was still subsidised by the government (taxpayer).

I agree that it's not a binary choice between the NHS and American madness. But even though health care systems in Europe work well I don't think they would fix any problems the NHS has. And would possibly add more. I don't think there is a magic bullet which is going to fix the issues with the NHS and future proof against aging populations and mean we don't have to pay more. But I think it's tempting to think switching to be like Germany/the Dutch/France is that bullet.

I’m 47 and in a well paying job but will still need to work well past retirement. Retiring at 53 is a choice and you are not just luckier than some. I’d imagine you’re in a more fortunate position than most.

Health insurance mostly provided by employers but a good safety net provided by government. The whole free at the point of use is an alien concept and I think it’s one we can’t afford anymore.

But look at the outrage over increasing employers NI. European countries fund their healthcare with higher social security taxes both for the employer and employee.

Plus benefits and pensions are linked to what people pay in, again not something we do.

So we need tax rises to stop the debt growing AND more tax rises to pay for better public services, so two lots or double tax rises. That would crash the economy.

Agree - the French system is in a mess too.

there is no silver bullet but they need to change things - you just need to do it in slow steps.

people don’t value what they don’t see they pay for - not necessarily financial cost but people in this country really take public services for granted

Well it's why public services are struggling and will continue to do soon.

so not soon

They should pause the triple lock but they don't have the guts

No but we need to come up with changes

and part of the problem is people think NIC is them paying in - but the government just treat it like general taxation.

@Bruisername I don't disagree but I just don't believe the electorate wants to acknowledge it. Reform are growing in popularity because they are promising lower taxers and better services. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree. State pensions have been rising faster than average wages which is utterly ridiculous.

State pensions have been rising faster than average wages which is utterly ridiculous.

It's ludicrous

I think historically we didn't with the NHS. There is far less inclination to waste resources than in Germany etc where there is an attitude of "I paid for this I will get my money's worth". Fair enough, but health care costs more per head there. Bar a few chancers, there is an attitude towards preserving NHS resources that is quite unique to the UK. Sometimes that's a bad thing (people not going to the doctor's when they really should) but I think the one thing that stopped the NHS collapsing completely during austerity was good will from nurses etc and patients. You can't run on good will alone.
It's changing now. People resent poor treatment. Others have had to go private to get care so are detached from the system. some would say this was Osbourne's plan all along but it's something I think we would only understand the importance of if we lost it all together.

Ok so all your talking about is NI which retirees have paid all their life anyway 🤷‍♀️

True - but I do believe that’s a generational thing. You don’t have to watch too many episodes of Ambulance to see that!!

It's a bind because as the population ages pensions get harder to afford, but pensioners get more political power. So it's harder and harder to fix.
I don't want to demonise pensioners. It's not their fault and God willing we will all be retired one day. But I'm economic terms it's a bind. I think some people know this but don't want to face it, so it's easy politics to make other groups "benefit scroungers", immigrants in hotels, the EU, Net Zero lobby etc a scapegoat as it makes it seem like there's an easy pain free solution.

@IsUnemploymentRising
I haven’t read the full thread as I’m busy trying to be with my severely disabled daughter - you know, one of the people who’d fail a survival of the fittest country/society…
Why are there so many children with difficulties now you ask - well firstly a larger population means more people with more problems (alongside more people with no problems). So there’s that.
Secondly, as it’s well remarked upon - children who have ASD or ADHD will require additional support to those who do not. They are recognised as having the same rights to life, education and healthcare that everyone else has - so they aren’t locked away any more. I think if you suggest that at your next meeting of minds, maybe Nigel will take it up on your behalf.
Children like my child- she’s only alive because she had neonatal care that provided oxygen support and remains alive only because gastrostomies exist - so blame medical developments for that.
She will take a portion of money - from taxpayers- that she can never return because she cannot walk, talk, eat or comprehend anything that would involve receiving a wage or taxation.
As a corollary to her life, mine has become one in which I receive DLA on her behalf, Carer’s Allowance and child benefit.
I could not work for 7 years.
I now work 10 hours a week and do not contribute tax via my £4600 a year.
11 years ago I earned £50,000 a year and spent money locally and paid NI etc.
People like my daughter and I have the same rights as you and anyone else who thinks we should not have.
If it came down to it, the survival of the fittest society might surprise you - I’d be far more equipped and ready to destroy those who came to harm us. I’m used to fighting and stepping it up seems a small move - after all I don’t wear myself out wondering how to “hunker down” to move my assets around, so I suppose I’m hardened.

Ok so all your talking about is NI which retirees have paid all their life anyway

It used to stop at 60, that generally isn't all of one's life.

@persephonia that's exactly it, the whole boat people is a distraction.

I wouldn't abolish it as the principle made sense but it should be paused currently.

Oh I have relatives who work in the NHS who have stories! The problem is, there's a natural bias in that the feckless people who do waste resources will by nature be more exposed to them than all the people who don't call the ambulance for silly reasons. And rude/unpleasant people stick in the mind more.

God willing we will all be retired one day

Will young people be able to though?

I can't afford to pay more tax than I am and still make a viable living, I can barely manage the council tax now and that leaps annually. I have no idea now what I'll do when my disability escalates to the point I can't work at all as benefits will now be impossible, haven't been able to save for a pension and still afford to live, and am shit scared about the future. And remembering vividly why I loathe Labour governments, I can't afford them.

It’s not so much rudeness - it’s the 92 year old with a broken hip apologising for bothering them vs the young person with a splinter! All the paramedics I know give feedback up the chain but no one wants to come up with solutions that could be seen as ‘mean’

I know my parents and grandparents saw being on benefits as being shameful and would do whatever they could to get out of them - but the government has created a situation where benefits subsidise wages so they are no longer a safety net but a necessity

Some have, some havn't. But what does it matter? Everyone also pays all other taxes for their entire life. Can't understand why people seem to think that OAPs should be exempt from one tax whilst continuing to be liable for all the others.

To answer your question OP about preparing - already do all I can to minimise costs. Heating used as little as possible, eat a lot of oats, lentils, bread and pasta which is cheap, eat a lot less meat and bulk it out as much as possible with veg, spend only on essentials and try to break even at the end of the month. And that's before the budget lands.