Labour isn't working - Thread 12

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5419335-labour-isnt-working-thread-11?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

"It will leave her with no option but to increase taxes substantially.
Ms Reeves will argue that growth boosting reforms, such as a further loosening of planning rules, can avoid the need for tax rises on “working families”. She will instead target those with higher incomes or more wealth, The Telegraph understands."

Where is the line for " working families" and those with higher incomes exactly?

"No option" my arse.

She could do a million things including cutting spending

They’re in the mire and putting us all through it. Utterly clueless incompetence.

Yes we’re being dragged behind the wagon alright - no options. Such lies!

Although, predicated on an ‘unavoidable’ tax raising budget, I do hope they do stick to income tax and not any of these smaller taxes that they feel only hit non Labour voters as they’ve clobbered business and created all sorts of new, bad incentives by trying to keep to their ‘working people’ claims…

I suppose the question is after this lot are voted (or booted) out, how much of the fiscal and social damage they leave behind will be capable of being undone or ameliorated?

(Is it just me who can't "react" to posts this morning? The little bubble is blank.)

My thinking is leaning more towards then view that they need to bring down the entire edifice first - they are clearly better at being out of power, and after this, many of them may never work again.

It’s a zero sum game.

They couldn’t even get a 5 bn cut through, which is a rounding error - there is no hope.

Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.

Don’t vote Labour in, they spend and tax. Too late now of course. Stuck with them unless they do put us before their party.

I think that comes back to the belief that any success is by definition evidence of privilege - since it is privilege to be able to succeed- and so any success is intrinsically unfair. They believe that - morally - the fruits of that success should be shared amongst everyone - with as little as possible given to the person who caused the success.

That seems to genuinely be their world view- and that of many of the pro-Labour posters on here.as well.

It's the most extreme form of socialism - and to us it's obvious how damaging and wrong it is, with our belief in the importance of personal responsibility and the moral justice of getting out of life what you put in.

But as I see similar happening in other Western countries - notably France - I do wonder whether this is the inevitable trajectory of our current social model with it's ever-increasing welfare state, and will lead to it's end.

As in the Alexander Fraser Tytler quote about voters discovering "that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

Hopefully we'll just have a swing to the right as people realise how unsustainable it is - but the longer it goes on, the stronger the swing will be. The welfare state has existed for less than 100 years: we all like having it (but not paying for it), but it's far from a core and necessary part of society and perhaps - like communism - it simply doesn't work as a model.

That’s right.

I don’t subscribe to the likelihood of an early GE, or an IMF bailout etc. A more reasonable(?) hope is that they simply become akin to a zombie government, unable to create any more acts of economic vandalism.

I want Reeves to go in hard next month, the sooner Labour are hamstrung, the better for all of us ‘broadest shoulders’. If only there were a collective movement.

This government is a living nightmare.

@dancingferret Is it just me who can't "react" to posts this morning? The little bubble is blank.)

OK for me

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/2ed0a1ea1240a2a7

Am really not ok with getting rid of the two child UC cap and then massively taxing people, who earn slightly too much to get any help.
Either we can afford to do this stuff or we can’t.

Thank you. It's me, then. It's still blank, but if I touch the screen in the right place, it still works.

Yep I heard some talk on partial u turn on farmers’ tax this morning Times Radio, well done to the farmers if so.

Reeves and Starmer may as well collapse all the stuff they’ve done given how damaging it is.

The silver lining being no one apart from a few loyal followers will want them back.

Bigot saying she "doesn't accept" that 25k kids have left independent schools in last 12 months 😡😡😡 fucking liar!!! Just constant gaslighting and lies

Really?

What a truly ignorant POW she is.

And yes, a fucking liar.

Sat with a grin on her face claiming most parents support the policy. She actually triggers me now tbh because I know every single word coming out of her mouth is a lie. We have the data and impact, she refuses to acknowledge it.
I hope she loses her seat at the GE. I will laugh in the same way she laughs at our DC.

Absolutely - it’s that sense that she’s enjoying it all, truly an odious human being.

She’s doing that Labour I don’t recognise lie but it also suggests she knows that figure is damaging.

So the people against the policy were right, if Labour were actually truthful they’d have to acknowledge the damage they’ve caused.

Every time they lie blatantly like that, they lose more voters. I'm trying to take some comfort from that. I saw BP on Laura K, but she wasn't really asked much about education.
Reeves will do the same at the budget. She will lie about the causes of the mess she finds herself in.

I hope it's true about some row back for the farmers 🤞.

Priti Patel was good this morning.

I don't pay much attention to BP, being honest I don't pay much attention to education policy generally.

When I do see her, she does look incredibly smug. Was it true that she spent thousands of public money on a birthday party that she had disguised as a work event?

The first expense that needs to stop is the political gravy train. I'm really tired of people saying "oh but x issue only costs a tiny amount of money in the scheme of things". It all needs to be cut.

i've lived in a few different London boroughs and it was striking how some MPs were doing the same commute I was doing, and working long hours but using public transport habitually. While others were taking taxis all the time. Taxis because of an extra long day, I understand. Taxis because it's too late to be safe on public transport, I understand. But one in particular was using a taxi every time he went to Westminster.

A good read. Please do share Monday’s instalment, if you can.

The number of people who have suffered a direct and adverse impact from Labour’s policies, is mounting. Job losses/a dead jobs market, failing SME’s, school parents - both PS and state, farmers, OAP’s et al.

I genuinely believe this has the potential to turn nasty. These are people’s lives they are destroying.