Labour isn't working - Thread 12

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5419335-labour-isnt-working-thread-11?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

And because a lot of people are making money out of the situation - lawyers, housing, charitable enterprises….

I don’t believe for a moment that Labour could, but have chosen not to, stop the boats. Nothing intentional about Labour’s failure. They just can’t do anything about it. But nobody can, without a suitable deterrent.

When the Tories developed a deterrent of off-shore processing in Rwanda it began to work - that’s why Ireland got so upset, because so many asylum seekers went there to claim asylum. But Starmer scrapped it. So he only has himself to blame.

What’s up with Labour?

Worth listening to. Gary on point as usual.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPa5ZUtjh5l/?igsh=Y2p6Z25scGxyaGZn

(when he talks about the rich he’s referring to the uber rich billionaires etc, not us plebs. Well unless any of you are billionaires. Well done if so..!)

Well NHS (England) waiting lists are up again! @Absentosaur

True. And private school bills. Water bills. Food bills.

And unemployment, council tax..

Oh FFS. 🤦‍♀️

I could understand exasperation about the Tories and waiting lists because the more hopeful and idealistic voices used to urge more spending. But a year after massive tax raids to spend more on the NHS and doctors’ pay demands it’s still getting worse!

Starmer and Reeves really are the Frank Spencer and Mavis Wilton of UK politics.

Edited to change Olive Rudge to Mavis Wilton, because Mavis “I don’t really know” Wilton seems more apt for Reeves.

I've been putting stuff on my Amazon wishlist just as a reminder. Do it around this time every year. Things haven't gone up pence but pounds in the buy again section I browsed through.

I wholly agree with you.

I must admit that I haven't been all that interested in politics until recently. What does strike me though is how little business acumen our current politicians have, which I find very worrying.

Kier Starmer seems to me, totally incapable of running anything let alone an entire country. Surely a lesson learned from all this mess with the current Government is that we need to put controls in place to prevent this happening again?

A prime minister should, in my opinion, should have proven business experience. They should be a former CEO of a company or CFO. The same for the Chancellor of the Exchechor. If that means they're paid considerably more than what they are currently, then so be it. It's money well spent.

Running a country is, in my opinion, like running a company.

This current lot seem to have no business acumen whatsoever between the lot of them. I think it's insane they're allowed to run (and destroy) our country.

It's a tricky one.

I likewise feel like I'm watching the new grad suddenly running the board. This government don''t seem to have the slightest clue about how to think through ideas and consequences - working on evidence not opinions - and spot and drill into areas of uncertainty or risk: discipline which is second nature to anyone who has worked at a reasonably senior level. I'd expect it from a junior: I'd expect them to come back several times thinking they've finished, and have to give guidance on what else is needed... but I'd have started them with something easy and not too significant: not foreign policy or the budget!

But isn't this the support which the civil service are meant to provide?

It's actually fairly fundamental to our democracy that anyone can go into politics. It comes back to the concept that our MPs are meant to be our representatives, not our rulers.

I'm not sure what's gone wrong? Is it classic Dunning-Kruger in this government - that they see themselves as so above us that they don't realise what they don't know and don't accept the support of the civil service? Or has the civil service gone into decline: or perhaps they've never actually given that support we'd expect, but better/more experienced governments have had at least a few key individuals who have made up for deficits in the civil service with their own strengths?

Certainly the complexity of managing a country like the UK seems to be vastly underestimated - by both the government and voters - and (as our thread title!) it currently just isn't working.

It costs them voters right now, though.

I'm not sure it does, tbh. Lefties seem to be all for open borders. The number of times I've heard 'if we put safe routes in, then the illegal migration will stop' with seemingly no understanding of quite how many people worldwide would like a taxpayer-funded life in the UK....

I know that one of the lovely posters here posts some colour charts.
I can't find it at the moment, but you can see there where the votes bleed into.

I'll take. look later, off to work now.

Yes true.

I’ve never understood the ‘safe routes’ point. Surely anyone who is in genuine peril flees anyway. So application by others who aren’t genuinely seeking asylum would be turned down and those people would come by boat etc anyway.

That's me and here is the latest one 😊

With our current asylum system, hundreds of millions of people worldwide could say the right words to be granted asylum. There are many countries which oppress particular religions, or LGBT people. No one knows what is in your mind, so anyone can claim those. We can't take everyone who lives in a country with illiberal laws who would rather live in the UK.

Hete's just a little example - from 7 years ago, so undoubtedly much more prevalent now with our activist lawyers. Do you really think all the people being baptised in this church where 95% of the congregation are immigrants are completely uninfluenced by it being a free pass to stay in the UK?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-42891162.amp

The asylum rules need to be tightened up significantly, even without the safe routes - too many people are just coming anyway.

But safe routes with current rules would be insane.

Morning all 😁 TFI Friday!

I'm chuckling to myself reading all the Trump threads. The left can't seem to bring themselves to give Trump any credit. I hope he does get the nobel prize.

Starmer has definitely lost votes on immigration, look at the red wall. Reform wouldn't be polling as they are if Labour had 'smashed the gangs'. Starmer is a HR lawyer, so he'll never get what the issue is, but he does want to stay in power. Hence 'island of strangers' etc. The flip side is that every time he tries to ape Nigel, he loses votes to the left. He can't win, which is fine by me.

Those colour charts are a brilliant illustration, thanks @twistyizzy. Agree that there needs to be a tightening up of who classifies as an asylum seeker. Kemi's proposals earlier in the week spoke about ending claims based on sexuality and religion.

This stock market overheating story is gathering pace…US investors dumping shares, particularly
in AI…

Fears rise over $3tn shadow banking crisis

Oh and this :

Wage growth falls to four-year low amid weak demand for staff

www.thetimes.com/article/b46a5a0c-09a9-4008-a737-e690a645d2d3?shareToken=b2450a906825f7b1f406ae7eccde61a1

Thanks for the share.
No surprises there.

Analysts have blamed Rachel Reeves for weakening the labour market by raising employers’ national insurance contributions by £25 billion.

And a stock market correction is the last thing anyone needs!

Well whodathunkit?
It's rich they have the nerve to say the avaerage pay increase is 4.5%. Maybe for the public sector....