Why was it mostly men on the march?

[noblegiraffe]

I've seen quite a few photos of the march yesterday, and they pretty much all look like the one below. Vast majority men. Why is that? Why is Robinson's patriot messaging and call-to-action landing mostly with men and not women?

Voting by sex wasn't massively different in the last general election - men were certainly more likely to vote Reform, but not by a huge amount, so generally politically we're not that different.

I was on the train to London yesterday, there were women waiting for the train with Union Jack flags draped around their shoulders, clearly attending the march.
I ended up chatting with two men, from completely different backgrounds, both attending the Freedom of Speech march, and they had different reasons for attending, but neither of them came across as ignorant, fascist or racist. More like very disillusioned, disenfranchised and fed up of being told that their views are abhorrent when they see themselves as fairly representative of the people around them.
I really feel that the time has come to stop branding everyone who attends these protests as 'thick' or 'racist'. It isn't true, and serves only to polarize.

Load of women and children where I was looking. The stewards kept them away from the front and sides though, for fear of the baton police and the oh so peaceful Antifas.

Largely because of childcare needs and worries about personal safety in such a huge gathering, I'd imagine, particularly in case of being kettled for hours on end which has happened at other events, or even just usual transport routes being closed or diverted which can be scary in a city you're not used to. Especially if you are alone!
A few people have touched on women being child free; I don't know if this is typical, but none of the women I know who have very vocal left and progressive views (wider family and old friends) have chosen to have children.

But we should be polarised when it comes to those who agree with Tommy Robinson and the views being expressed at the march yesterday - whether that’s the speaker who called for all non-Christian religious expression to be banned, Elon Musk telling people essentially to choose preemptive violence, or the supposedly moderate video that a poster referenced up thread that explained in a very genteel way why it’s a problem that there are more non-white people in the UK now.

We should not be trying to pretend there is room for reasonable debate with anyone who holds those views. Those views are incompatible with democratic values and should be shunned entirely.

Frankly I’m sick of racists whining that the reason they’re racist is because people call them out on being racist.

Tommy Robinson has just posted a video of a child chanting his name while sat on her father's shoulders.

However, she appears to be surrounded by men. One woman's voice, possibly holding the camera.

I'm really not seeing these pictures of 'lots' of women and children.

https://x.com/trobinsonnewera/status/1967195610421063802?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

Happy to be corrected.

But I’m not aware of evidence that higher education results in a greater ability to think critically.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/depth/do-universities-teach-students-think-critically

You mean the Antifas who were kettled by the police for their own protection while the SYL supporters tried to get to them and also into the sterile zone at Whitehall? The Antifas who were stomping all over the place at St Thomas's hospital after taking the fences down and pissing in the grounds?

Only it wasn't the counter protestors doing that, was it?

@Grumpymiddleagedwoman43 Why disillusioned? Because not everyone agrees with them? Why disenfranchised? Because they cannot be rude to people? Because they want to “say it as it is” without caring what that means to others? In short it’s because they are selfish. Why do we need to express views anyway? We got through life perfectly well by talking with friends. Now we have to tell the world what we think. They could think twice about potentially being offensive and not just repeating what they are told.

Oh, Tommy Robinson has just helpfully answered my question by posting an absolutely cringe song on twitter called 'where are the men of England'?

It was mostly men on the march, because he wanted men there.

Women are resources, not persons with agency....

Aren't these people largely just an offshoot of football hooligan firms?

(I say this as someone with some pretty big immigration concerns.)

I know a Black person that marched. I know a Black lesbian who went. 10 of my closest friends - without exception highly intelligent young career women - thought it was a fantastic day out. I saw families laughing their heads off at the sheer joy of being in such a joyously friendly, calm, kid-friendly place. And the flags! Oh how the kids loved the flags. All 4 million of us had a splendid time. Free Palestine.

I really feel that the time has come to stop branding everyone who attends these protests as 'thick' or 'racist'

When people say this kind of thing, I mentally paraphrase the MAGA trope: not all Trump voters are racist, but all racists are Trump voters.

Now watch the racist and misogynistic incidents at school rise, as if teachers don't have enough to do without having to deal with kids who've been groomed by right wing parents.

Look at the other threads from yesterday on the marches. There was a comment from someone who actually attended the counter protest march, who admitted that children were scared of the anti immigration one and had to be escorted out of the crowds. I asked her to confirm what she said, and she repeated that whilst she didn’t necessarily agree with it, there were children on the counter protest. So I’d take it up with her if you find her post. She would have no reason to make it up - she was actually with the counter protest crowd…

They were ‘kettled’ by the police to avoid any fights. They were kettled rather than the other protest purely because they were heavily outnumbered so it made sense to kettle the smaller numbered group.

I actually judge anyone who had a child there yesterday, from either end of the spectrum. It was never going to go down without incident.

i imagine their wives or significant others were parenting the children or even working…

Well I was actually there and can tell you that it wasn't groups from the counter march that wandered off to the other march to hurl abuse. And I was in Whitehall when a group from the other rally tried to get into our rally via a sidestreet and when they couldn't get past the barrier, climbed onto any wall or ledge they could to try to drown out the speakers.

And who knows what the government wants, seeing as they seem particularly loathe to comment on any of it.

And genuinely, if you don't read the papers or watch the news, where do you get your information from?

Children should absolutely not be anywhere near these protests. If any parent took their child there, then the police should take them to somewhere safe and involve social services. I can’t understand why any sensible responsible parent would take a child there - there’s been suggestions of trouble all week in the media due to counter protestors attending too. Why would any parent think it’s a good idea?!

Why? What makes you reach that (incorrect) conclusion?

The diagram released by the Metropolitan police shows the flashpoints where SYL supporters who had broken from the authorised route attempted to get to the counter demonstrators and tried to breach the sterile zone. People in the counter group have said they were kept there for hours as the police didn't think it safe for them to leave, which was I'm sure true.

Also, any comment about which group were the vandals at St Thomas's?

You know where you don't have to deliberately keep women and children away from the front and sides? The more left wing marches. Because there isn't an expectation that the rest of those attending will be violent

So was I @darklady64 , and I witnessed exactly the same. I've already posted what I saw and asked the poster to respond, but nothing as yet

IMHO reasoned debate is how civilised societies should address differences of opinion.

Racism should always be challenged, rather than ignored or dismissed.

You do understand that racism exists in all communities. That many Hindus in the UK have very anti Muslim views? That many Muslims have, for decades been very racist against people if Caribbean descent. Thar Muslims can be very bigoted agsinst white people don’t you?

There doesn’t have to be just a danger of physical violence, but also verbal abuse, such as displayed at the pro Palestinian marches. Or in fact at many left wing protests. For example people shouting out anti Semitic views and displaying inappropriately worded anti semitic banners is hardly a parent being a role model for peace are they?