Charlie Kirk dead

[Booneymil]

The last thread was taken down because of personal insults towards the man.

We should be able to have a thread about this news topic.

Report any insulting posts. Mumsnet can you please just delete the offending posts, instead of deleting the whole thread?

Thank you.

Charlie Kirk has died today. He was shot at a public talk that he was giving.

Fully agree. ‘It’a tragedy on a personal level, of course, but on the other hand it’s one less Trump support’? What a sickening comment.

I’ve felt this for a long time, but now I know it deep down in my bones as a right-leaning person: the left hates us and wants us dead.
They don’t want to debate us, they aren’t interested in the marketplace of ideas.

They think it’s funny too.

The shooter has now been captured.

Is it not?

Shooters in America target schools to make a point. This one didn't.

They targeted CK. A man who argued for the shooter to have that gun. I repeat, I'd rather he take the bullet to make a point than a class full of primary school kids.

Live by the gun, die by the gun.

america as a white settler entity is a shitstain on humanity.

His views were abhorrent, but (to paraphrase Voltaire) I will defend his right to them.

This shooting is horrific, and is the product of that shitstain entity that is america. According to him though, his death is rational:

"I... think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."

Abhorent views - yes
Tragic for the family - yes
Ironic - yes

I just hope this doesn't work in Trump's favour and that the US doesn't make him a martyr.

That’s probably true. But that makes his comments worse in my view - who was he thinking it was going to happen to when he said the deaths were “worth it”, because I agree, he probably wasn’t thinking it would him whose death was worth it for the greater good of the second amendment. So who, just school kids?

ETA - just in case there’s any confusion, my criticism of him saying other people’s deaths are worth it does not mean I don’t condemn his murder.

Decent men do not say that 10yo rape victims should not be allowed an abortion. That is extreme by anti abortion standards.

He was also opposed to lgb rights, and hectored women to get off the pill & marry bc 30 is past your prime (tho he married his wife when she was 32!)

But the key thing is:

His wife seems like a lovely person and she is a widow now who saw her husband be shot. The kids are tiny. Can we remember the bereaved who are left, whatever we thought of him when he was alive?

He held open debates about controversial topics in locations that have become echo chambers. I dislike religion in general so fundamentally disagreed with his views on Christianity, I am pro-choice, pro-immigration, anti-guns…. So 90% of my beliefs were in direct opposition to his.

But in all of the debates I have seen him have, he allowed the other side to speak, he didn’t swear, walk off when he heard something he didn’t like, refuse to speak to people he knew held a different opinion to him, he wasn’t rude or unpleasant. He stood firm in his beliefs and he rebutted their arguments but he facilitated and encouraged an open exchange of ideas, something that has recently been sadly lacking especially in institutions like Universities which have become echo chambers where people seem to think that group think and conformity to the consensus is the best way.

We should be able to disagree with each other, to challenge each others beliefs, to think critically about an opinion and explore whether we agree with it, disagree with it or a mix.

He was actively trying to force anti abortion policies to further restrict abortion in America.

How isn't that forcing his opinion on women?

Omg some of the comments on the daily mail article about him are horrendous. I felt sick after reading one

@Booneymil "I have a Catholic friend and she is very anti abortion. I havent fallen out with her over it"
100% this!
One of my best friends is Catholic and very anti abortion and has various other opinions that dont sit right with me but we agree on lots of other things and always manage to have a great chat whenever we meet up. Disagreeing need not be a reason to fight and fall out. Its definitely not a reason to shoot someone!

Really! If wonder if it’s the guy X sleuths spotted. I have been watching them chase name changes for half hour or so.

So you think Hitler’s death was a tragedy?

He can’t have thought they were that much of a tragedy. He made that comment after a school shooting where children died.

Yep.

Point of order, but there appears to be some confusion over whether anyone is in custody. At the press conference just now conflicting information was given.

It's still unclear if anyone has been arrested.

The vast majority of gun owners in America are responsible. Not everyone with a gun wants to do a shoot out in a school. I guess crime is so bad over there that most want the gun for protection.

I know it’s crazy.

Ugh i just saw a comment on the daily mail. It said about the shooting video

"That is the best video that he has ever starred in. I will watch that one".

People are writing horrible
comments about him

who wanted people (especially women) to be safe and respected.
Don't forget he also wanted women to be forced to carry to term and give birth to their rapists babies. Even 10 year olds. I don't see respect and safety in that.

Sad for his kids but he did say gun deaths are worth it to keep the right to bear arms so he would have seen his own death - talking about gun and gang violence- was worth it for that right

I hated Kirk's opinions: opposition to gay rights, (not just trans), thinking even a 10yo rape victim should not be allowed an abortion, which is an extreme view even for anti abortionists.

Right wing people have all kinds of opinions. I certainly don't hate ones who don't hold opinions as extreme as Kirk's.
And I don't want anyone to die.

There are lot of horrible people on all sides of politics, including many left wingers.

But please don't feel that most left wingers are as you describe..

I think SM brings out the worst people often. Or people who are saying sick things to troll that they don't actually even believe, which is just as bad

Well fingers crossed it is him or that poor soul will be having a heart attack. X thinks it’s him and they are showing the name change as a profile when you search the old name which is not usual.

Will have to see how this plays out.

This isn’t exactly a radical viewpoint to hold, as an American.

But does it actually help? Why can't they just deal w the crime???