Charlie Kirk dead

[Booneymil]

The last thread was taken down because of personal insults towards the man.

We should be able to have a thread about this news topic.

Report any insulting posts. Mumsnet can you please just delete the offending posts, instead of deleting the whole thread?

Thank you.

Charlie Kirk has died today. He was shot at a public talk that he was giving.

I am American.

When I heard he was dead I made two predictions.

1). The establishment media and their anonymous pawns on the socials would say "well he supported gun rights so he had it coming hurr hurr." I am sorry to report that mumsnet did not disappoint as almost the very first commentator said exactly that. Shame on all of you who conflate gun rights with gun violence. The UK schools are battling a massive problem of knife crime for crying out loud. And if it's not knives, it's arson. The problem is not the weapons but the moral depravity and absolute nihilism into which we have allowed our children to fall, in all Western countries. There is no band-aid cure for that. (As a side note, part of the reason we support gun rights so strongly is because the kick-off to the American Revolutionary War started with the British soldiers attempting to take American guns and ammunition. It is a form of control that only impacts the "good guys"; not anyone who would be breaking the law anyway.)

2). The establishment media would jump on "maga extremists reacting in rage to death of Charlie Kirk", instead of just simply reporting on facts of the case.

Both of these predictions happened in record time. It is despicable how lost my nation is.

This is not an issue of gun violence. This is an issue of Christian persecution. Hating Christians is a perfectly acceptable form of bigotry where I live. Children in Christian schools are being targeted and killed. Expect to see many more high profile American Christians murdered.

Let's call this for what it is. This was not a random act of political violence or a result of loose gun laws. This was a blood killing. In the eyes of the church, he is a martyr. There will be more to come.

PS I do include his wife and daughters in that. If it turns out to be a woman who shot their husband and father I'll eat my hat.

And how did he do that? With his words.

It’s depressing how predictable the reaction was.

Well put. Sadly.

And there were Kapos in the concentration camps.

I feel like the view that words are never dangerous is only really entirely true if we all agreed never to take any dangerous or damaging actions in response to any words.

With opinions like that, you really didn’t need to preface it by telling us you are an American 🙄

No person has been caught yet. Why are you stirring up hateful speculation regarding this assassination?

. Double post

Really?

Well, there are only a few places in the developed world where you can do that at will. Most countries (and US states) put limits on when a woman has a "right" to an abortion.

In the USA there are nine states where you can get an abortion right up until the day before you give birth (places like Oregon and Colorado).

Everywhere else, even places like California and Washington, places limits.

No. The far left is no worse than the far right. Extremists are dangerous, whichever way they lean.

I absolutely hate that America is regressing and I hate that we are STILL at the point of killing people whose politics and rhetoric do not agree with ours, but that is as far as I can go.

For the institution, I despair.
For the man, I feel nothing 🤷🏾‍♀️. I'm not even going to wrestle with that, as I'm sure he'd likely be on a microphone pontificating about why someone else's death was justifiable / unimportant/ a result of who they are... blah blah blah.

What I'm even more concerned about, is the fact that the same hate has stirred up discontent here; and I dread the day it truly takes hold again ☹️.

He didn’t deserve to be killed.

however he was indirectly an instigator and antagoniser of violence and division And he’s sadly paid the price.

Trump has ordered all flags to be flown at half mast. They should do this every time a kid is killed in a school. Or indeed anyone shot dead. Why does this one non elected person have this preferential treatment? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I disagreed with a lot of his opinions, but actually found his debates interesting and pretty respectful. As this thread shows lots of people lack critical thinking and hear someone say something and take it as read if it fits their agenda.

If we’re going to be as pedantic as that poster, Hitlers’ words didn’t motivate the gullible and the vulnerable. They motivated the evil, the greedy and the power hungry because they set out an ideology - a vision of a Germany which had been wronged and had suffered, as rising to world dominance. Those who followed his words and ideology did so for the promise of their own gain. So to say they were just words and he didn’t kill anyone is naive at best. And after the failure of Operation Valkyrie - the plot to kill Hitler, l doubt whether the 5000 men Hitler personally ordered killed in the subsequent purge would agree either.

The problem is not the weapons

We know nothing about the shooter, so any commentary in relation to this incident is premature, but in general, the problem in the US is the weapons.

This is not an issue of gun violence. This is an issue of Christian persecution.

Unless you have access to information that hasn't yet been released to the media, like everyone else you know very little about the shooter and their background and motivation.

Well that is how we communicate. But he also physically went into countries.

If you’re going to bed pedantic (which is making you look extraordinarily foolish) Did Charlie advocate for rounding up and gassing Jews in any country? Did he suggest that several countries should be invaded by armed forces and annexed? Did he personally order the execution of anyone? No? Didn’t think so!

Who are you to decide what is right or moral? Honestly this is why we have a problem.

And that’s why gun rights are needed? To overthrow Trump

How would we overthrow an evil leader in the uk? None of us are armed, they have the army and every weapon there is 🤷‍♀️

Thats why CK argued for the right to bear arms, and why people are missing his point entirely

Dont be pathetic.

If i make assertions I'm prepared to back it up with facts and links.

I'm not interested in articles that do what you've done, assert something but without being able to back it up. All I'll find is your echo chamber.

If you can't put a link here to words spoken by someone that are genuinely hateful, rather than a different opinion tumours, then I shall disregard anything you have to say.

I never said he did. I didn’t actually directly correlate Hitler and Charlie Kirk at all. I merely used Hitler as an example of the destructive power people’s words can have. You and PP have, however, automatically drawn direct lines between Kirk and Hitler. Isn’t that interesting….

What an absolute bag of nuttery. Every single one of your statements is unsubstantiated and/or logically flawed.

Readily available guns are a problem. Even if we accept your premise that the UK school knife crime problem is anywhere on the level of the violence in US schools, how many people can you kill with a knife before people run away/catch you? The death toll from gun attacks does and always will enormously outstrip that of knife crime, simply because of the nature of the weapon. And while it is difficult to limit access to and ownership of knives due to their multiple non-harmful uses, there is only one thing that a gun is for and that's to shoot and kill things. There is absolutely no reason why access to and ownership of them can't and shouldn't be restricted, and it stands to reason it would protect children to do so.

Moreover, the stats comparing school deaths in America with civilised countries where access to firearms is limited bears this out. So you haven't got a leg to stand on and are just in a state of frothing paranoia.

I don’t agree with anyone being shot for their views, would never advocate for it and wouldn’t celebrate someone I disagree with being shot. In spite of that I can genuinely say I don’t find it sad this man is dead. I’m far more concerned that his death might push more people to follow his vile, misogynistic views on abortion than I am about what happened to him. That may not be very kind but it’s more honest than pretending what he was in life is irrelevant now he is dead.

Indeed. That's democracy. We can all have different views on things but we shouldn't get murdered for having them.