Charlie Kirk dead

[Booneymil]

The last thread was taken down because of personal insults towards the man.

We should be able to have a thread about this news topic.

Report any insulting posts. Mumsnet can you please just delete the offending posts, instead of deleting the whole thread?

Thank you.

Charlie Kirk has died today. He was shot at a public talk that he was giving.

People are “carted off” for holding lots of signs and lots of things they write (unless you want to attack women). We need to fully allow free speech, but then any group attacking military assets which are there to be used to defend this country quite rightly should be labelled terrorists)

‘You wish people like him wouldn’t exist’. Guess what? Someone agreed with you and killed him.

They haven't caught him and he is still on the loose.

I missed the part where Hitler was a leader who ordered invasions and the murder of 6 million Jews.

Does your critical thinking stretch to educating yourself as to how many times in the past Israel has sabotaged the peace protest ? How many of their own politicians who advocated for withdrawal of the illegal Jewish settlements somehow ended up accused of various crimes and removed from office ? How the division of land they proposed for a Palestinian state consisted of mostly barren desert ? Or even how many of their own people disagree with what their government is doing ?

Does it stretch to taking a good look at places like Hebron, where Palestinian workers returned home to find their windows and doors welded shut and Israeli checkpoints on their doorsteps ? Where Palestinian communities and livelihoods were destroyed without a second thought and an apartheid system of their streets imposed ?

Never heard of him. Americans shooting other Americans isn’t really news is it?

I mean, that’s a pretty big thing for you to miss, did you not do history at school?

Yes there are on here. And it is part of the discussion. Anyone sensible and decent is talking about the impact of the reaction to this.

But I wouldn’t - that’s the point. I don’t think he was far right. American politics is very different to the UK and impossible to reconcile directly. What we feel about guns is very different to the US. I would ban them all absolutely but having spent years travelling the US it is absolutely something most Brits wouldn’t understand

Well clearly you did, basically saying the guy was Hitler.

You might want to read what you actually wrote. That’s embarrassing for you.

I agree. People die in all sorts of ways and we still do the things that kills them, as we believe it’s our right to the freedoms those things give us, that makes it worth it.

I think we need to worry about where this is leading society. TBH i say leading, its more a case of we are already way down this path.

I go back to my own childhood 40 years ago. I kind of knew who my parents voted for but it was never really discussed. I never had a hint of knowing who other people voted for. Other peoples opinions didnt really get shared in the way we do today. We didnt have the platforms for it like MN and social media.

Now its everywhere. There isnt a day, hour, minute goes by without something divisive being posted or debated. We do it to death on here ourselves.

But here is the thing and it is as clear as day to me it started when brexit and covid kicked off. We have become a generation who cannot and will not accept other sides to an argument. We cannot believe others may think something differently and we will get nasty, abusive and sometimes downright horrible to argue our point regardless of the fact it is often a race to the bottom of the barrell. Normally sound, sane people will turn into rabid animals, foaming at the mouth to make their point and stamp down on those with alternative or differing opinions.

I saw it all over facebook when covid was happening. I see it now when a covid thread appears on here still. Bing up a brexit point and it kicks off. Those that believe Covid is still around think those that dont are trying to kill them. Those that dont believe in it feel like those that do are trying to ruin their lives and take away their freedom.

Mark my words, this has filtered into politics. Or was it always there but older generations didnt have the platforms to see it. Politics has become sensationalised and its participants are now much more accessible and public figures. Rather than doing it for what they believe in, they do it for the status symbol and attention. They are professional politicians with really zero substance.

The nastiness remains in politics and its getting worse and worse. Lovely people i know are having to be muted whenever there is an issue. Immigration, brexit, taxes. It cant be discussed anymore without belittling people with alternative views or if it really kicks off being downright nasty.

Who is surprised that if everything goes down this path the end result is assassinations? I am not at all and trust me i dont see an end to this path.

Agreed.

This thread confirms to me what i have thought for many years. Many people are vile - absolutely vile. They are entrenched in their views and only their views are right. They twist the things they read to suit their own agenda, they aren't interested in debate or hearing another opinion.

It's a sad reflection of society today. A lack of respect, a lack of reasoning and a lack of emotional intelligence.

i think most think this was a professional hit due to the nature of the shot and disappearance of the gunman To go to those lengths it would be someone who wanted to silence him. This would indicate someone who either disagreed with his personal perspective or the government of which he was supporter and whose views he largely aligned with. This would, whilst not conclusive, certainly indicate a left leaning motive.

it is unlikely (although not impossible) this was a deranged individual who could have a number of motives (and would more likely have been shot or arrested)

You said “I missed the part where Hitler was a leader who ordered invasions and the murder of 6 million Jews.” Which is a pretty major failing of education on your part. I suspect you meant to say Charlie Kirk, to which I respond - I never said Charlie Kirk was like Hitler. I said that words are not just words, they have power, and used the example of Hitler, who brought about the death of millions of people simply with his words. YOU were the one who made a link between Hitler and Kirk directly, and it’s interesting that that’s where your mind went, isn’t it….?

I completely agree

A man who wants to take away women's bodily autonomy and have us all living in Gilead is an enemy of all women, everywhere. Of course British women would have shit to say about him, we stand with our American sisters. As time goes on national borders mean less and less to me, and it becomes more and more clear that the real war is men against women and children, and always has been.

But if you can see that you are increasingly losing the argument (public opinion polls shifting to the right) then some will revert to violence rather than concede democratic defeat.

There are plenty of women in the Uk are anti abortion. It isn’t the only view to be pro abortion despite what people put on social media. .

Again. You don't know who shot him and why.

Could be his jilted lover for all you know.

He openly expressed islamaphobia. He opposed abortion even in the case of 10 year old rape victims and he denied climate change. He opposed the Civil Rights Act. He helped to organise the January 6th insurrection which attempted to overthrow the democratically elected government. He absolutely was far-right, and while these views have strong traction in America they do not reflect the majority of opinions.

It wasn’t just with his words though was it? It was also the small matter of invading several countries, displacement and ultimately th Ed rounding up of Jews (and other groups). It was the establishment of concentration camps, setting up the gas chambers. It wasn’t “just words”

He was a man who advocated people discussing their differing views and said violence was the result of not doing this. He is 100% correct on that. Yes I find many of his views objectionable but I prefer to listen and learn how other people think, and respect the way he listened courteously to those he disagreed with. You only have to watch some of his videos to see some shared humanity. We all just adopt the views we feel are best and all the denouncing of certain camps as evil, ‘full of hate’ ‘fascists’ is a childish strategy that does nothing to help our world.