Charlie Kirk dead

[Booneymil]

The last thread was taken down because of personal insults towards the man.

We should be able to have a thread about this news topic.

Report any insulting posts. Mumsnet can you please just delete the offending posts, instead of deleting the whole thread?

Thank you.

Charlie Kirk has died today. He was shot at a public talk that he was giving.

Yes I agree. These threads descend into this stuff. It’s awful to see.

There is only one person in political office that has advocated (by ommission) for the use of violence to challenge political beliefs i.e. Jan 6 protests? To shoot someone at that distance and not harm anyone else the shooter had to be very well trained and confident in their abilites.

Could the inevitiable disagreement over this trigger another civil war in the US i.e. those for gun control and those against? If so who would benefit from a conflict? Was that the plan- divide to conquer?

I don’t think any person would deny we are seeing an Empire in decline. Empires rise and fall. I have said this for perhaps the last 10 years. But just because an Empire is declining doesn’t mean we should just accept whatever is lining up to replace it.

Exactly! now that he’s dead doesn’t mean all the evil he spewed out gets erased. Honestly we have more important things in the UK to focus on. The american right always has to remember the American left can only be pushed so far as they also live in the same country that has guns. Abolishing gun rights should’ve been a universal thing- not a right versus left issue. The right made this problem.

That’s not the case. And you are trying to use semantics to explain it away.

People on this thread think he deserved it because of his views. It is evil.

Define "numerous" with an actual number.

This is so disingenous. The main point of cars is transport. The main point of guns/weaponns is to maim and kill people. And we do have restrictions on cars (who can drive them and how they are operated), because we recognise that they are dangerous. In fact, there is more regulation around cars than guns in many US states. You'd need to do a driver education course for example, an hold a licence.

You cannot be a lovely person and support the things trump does

Oh dear. They’ve been found out.

Someone upthread mentioned it was good there was one less Trump supporter. I voted for him twice!

Their bloodlust is barely hidden.

He also said, in response to a question, that if he’s daughter became pregnant via rape at the age of ten, that ‘the baby would be born’. So no to the poster upthread who said he was family man who just wanted women to be safe. He wanted abortion outlawed completely, with no exceptions. That isn’t keeping women safe.

I didn’t agree with a single word that came out of his mouth, but like others l would defend his right to say it and not lose his life as a result. But with that right comes risk, and although what’s happened is a tragedy from the standpoint that this is yet another gun death, and a political assassination, it was naive to think that it wouldn’t happen, given his views. Is it wrong. Yes. Is it surprising. Definitely not.

Honestly, I haven’t seen anything like that. That’s a terrible response.
But - and you must know this is coming - whenever someone from the Left is killed or injured, the responses on SM are equally awful. Do you condemn those too?

I’m really confused by the position so many seem to be taking that this was just a nice little man who had debates.

When Charlie Kirk was 18, he started his organization Turning Point USA. Back then, abortion was legal in the US and Roe v Wade was the law. Thanks to the political goals of him, his organization, and tons more like him, Row v Wade was overturned, states get to decide what’s best for women, and “red” states seem to want women to suffer. And of course, the result in this anti-women climate for the very few states (FOUR!) that have exemptions for rape and incest (which Charlie didn’t support): 65,000 rape victims couldn’t get abortions. He got a turning point, all right. This is the world Charlie Kirk advocated for. A world where over 60,000 rape victims were retraumatized by forced pregnancy. Sounds like the third world.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/25/abortion-after-rape-laws-bans

So what is gained by suddenly pretending this man was just holding Platonic dialogues at college campuses in the name of debate and nothing else? He had been a political activist since starting Turning Point USA at age 18, and it was his style of political activism that helped America along to the state it’s in right now. Also, I absolutely laugh at people calling anything in America right now “left wing.” (Someone earlier said left wing extremism is the “greatest evil” in the world - they don’t even know if the shooter is political!) The Republicans AND Democrats are both so conservative politically that it’s ridiculous. Anyone calling the politicians involved “socialists” is seriously lacking in education. I mean, I’ve spotted a couple that met the fascist checklist, but socialist, no. Communist, no. There’s no “left wing” in the US - just political tribalism. Two parties led by billionaires that don’t give a fuck about anyone, and people like Charlie Kirk making their money being pundits.

There was a school shooting just a few minutes after Kirk’s death and he had absolutely no empathy for school shooting victims - he said many times that it was simply the price paid for the second amendment. Personally, I think they’re both awful incidents and statements about where America is at the moment. I don’t hate anyone, but it would be foolish to say his death WASN’T ironic. And I do objectively feel worse for the innocent kids in Colorado today.

You can’t be an intelligent rational person and think this

Bloodlust? Prominent MAGA figures on Twitter, closely connected with the White House, are calling for Kirk's death to be avenged and for leftists to be round up and treated like terrorists. People are really freaking out over a laughing emoji?

You are ok with the vile racist, homophobic and misogynistic rants then? You share those views?

You’re completely missing the point here by trying to make this about a single policy. This was an attack on the right to political opinion, on the right to freedom of speech on the right to democracy. All the things the hard left hate. That is far bigger than the right to carry a gun or not.

I watched a lot of Charlie’s debates and while I didn’t agree with him on some points, he always allowed the opposing view to have a platform and he often showed compassion and grace to people radically different to him. He absolutely wasn’t a ‘religious maniac’, just a man with a deep faith and arguments which flowed logically from that belief system. I wonder how many on this thread have actually watched any of his debates?

There is zero justification for murdering someone because of their political views. Zero.

You don’t need to worry. It does.

So you think people should be shot for their views without trial

It's funny how preaching firearms and lack of empathy is all fine and dandy till it turns against you (reminds me a bit of all the MAGA farmers who voted against ilegal immigration and in favour of tariffs and are all crying and regretting their vote as I type this).

Its not a case of deserving. It’s a case of he argued for a situation where gun ownership is rife and out of control, he was fine with school kids getting shot wasn’t he? Otherwise he would advocated for major reforms to remove the second amendment.

The implication of this view is that people on your side will always resort to violence if there are views they deem ‘dangerous’

Its good you admit it

How thick do you have to be, to not be able to grasp that a decent human being can disagree vehemently with another, and still be sad that they have been murdered in front of their family?

I think we can all remember how sensitively the American right, far- or otherwise, treated the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband.

Or how much interest they put in to the assassinations of the Minnesota Democrat state representatives a few months ago.

It's sad that there's been yet another victim of gun violence in the US but it's far from uncommon there. The place is awash with guns.

Yes I have watched his debates.

And yes, I agree that there was no justification for his murder. The vast majority of people who disagreed with him agree with that too.