Thread 32 Starmer - Corn Moon

[DuncinToffee]

Pull up a chair for some friendly chit chat about politics and beyond

Taxes optional but greatly appreciated.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5402603-thread-31-starmer-september-rain?page=40&reply=146949615

Mandleson was friends with Epstein long after that though. Including after Epstein's first conviction which I said on another thread is actually more damning - he can't argue he didn't know what Epstein was doing. After the first conviction it was really obvious.
I can't see why Labour let him stay in the party let alone be Ambassador. It looks so bad, and furthermore is actually really bad.

Me too.

but the hypocrisy gets my goat the most. Asylum seekers and immigrants coming to the U.K. - generally not ok.

We don’t want immigrants.

But someone leaving the UK is ok - they call themselves expats. Call themselves wanted workers is Oz etc. and moan about not being able to stay in their Spanish (for example) 2nd home for more than 99 days because of the Brexit they voted for.

Also people who voted for Brexit knowing the economic costs because "better a poor master than a rich servant" and then made sure that the economic costs fell on everyone other than themselves and are outraged- at paying higher taxes to support public services etc.

Votes Brexit for sovereignty/preserving British Democracy
Relocates to the UAE for financial reasons.

With nary a murmur from the free press

Much as I have a lot of time for Thornberry, I really hope it’s not her. She’ll never live down white van man, is a London elite MP and apparently clashes with Starmer. She’s also the right wing choice. The right hate Phillipson because of VAT on school fees and she’d be a distraction. I hope Allin-Khan stands.

I was listening to R4 as I walked to work this morning. The talked a lot about having someone more to the left to balance out the move to the right Labour is currently experiencing.
Very good chat about how the voters being lost to LD and greens are the ones they need to be focussing on - and Labour will never be able to out reform reform.

The irony of Labour moving to the right is that - as with the Tories rushing to embrace Brexit - it will probably destroy them.

We no long talk of Whigs, so sometimes when it's a things time, it's a things time.

Just listening to Tom Holland on Triggernometry, and caught a bit about how the British were the first industrial (Protestant) nation where a public movement grew rapidly to abolish slavery.

Now we have the same energy demonising refugees.

Yep, atm i'd struggle to support Lab, other than a vote to keep out Reform.

With more than 2 main parties now, we need PR.

. 🤯 not reflective of who we are at all.

Agree with the lady from the Faversham Society I’ve never seen that many people around town. We’re a quiet area.
How terrible.

Thanks for that update. I am a local resident and am shocked by what I’ve seen.

Remember that the largest all party (except reform, who have no interest in electoral reform) parliamentary working group is looking at electoral reform with a broad consensus that it is inevitable and a matter of urgency.

There seems to be a view that if Labour and Tories poll less than 50% combined, the resulting parliament is probably unviable as a democratic presentation.

Public opinion (mostly Protestant) also brought us the Gordon Riots in 1780. Which then led to further suppression of public speaking etc which the radicals and non-conformists kicked against in the decades to come.

You can't talk about the Gordon Riots without mentioning the Glorious Revolution which cemented the UK as a constitutional rather than absolute monarchy (yay) but also led to laws disenfranchising Catholics (non yay).

But a lot of the rhetoric against Catholics in the 18th century isn't that different to the rhetoric against Muslims now (they hate our freedoms). And non-conformists were trouble too.

And before then in Henry VIII it was Flemish Cobblers who were the target.

We are a funny old country.

It's ironic that knowing history troubles me more than not knowing it seems to leave others thinking there are unicorns everywhere.

It's all a bit Mr Wroe's Virgins by Jane Rogers and later adapted for a TV series. A book based on history, it focuses on John Wroe, founder of the Christian Israelite Church, Lancashire, who in 1830 declared the end of the world was nigh and so needed seven virgins to provide succour and comfort.

I bet it was easier to find them then than it would be now.

'protecting are culture'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd1n0g4pl1o
A white horse carved into a hillside is being checked for damage after it was temporarily turned into a St George's flag.

Well it turns out that it wasn't that easy @BIossomtoes . It's a great read and series.

There will be some Muslims who are overjoyed ... radical Islam really detests idols of all and any form.

Thank you for the recommendation. It’s on my list.

Same here. I’m particularly left wing and am much more centric but for me Labour is following the Tory’s to the far right and that’s not for me.

We need a centric government where we have some traditionally left wing policies pretext the vulnerable, education and health as well as some more right wing policies to make sure we have a functioning economy.

The irony being we can’t have a functioning economy without the protection of the vulnerable and ill and without good education. But that seems to get forgotten.

Instead apparently we get it by being racist fuckers and blaming minorities and the disabled.

@DuncinToffee that’s awful 😔

In a way it's sort of comforting in that we have been having the same (sometimes violent) arguments about free speech, "British" values, minorities and mob rule for centuries and probably will keep having to have them/rehash old arguments in the future. There is nothing particularly apocalyptic about now compared to before - if anything there were much stronger forces of disorder in the 18th/early 19th century than now.

I also find it sort of ironic that in 1780 the general conclusion was that Britain, as a constitutional monarchy, was much more at risk of collapse/dissolution than absolute monarchies like France which were inherently more stable...

It wouldn't make me feel any better if I had been the target of the recent riots/protests by the way. Or the people in the towns getting swarmed by the far right. It's still vile and awful.
It is more that it's easy to see it and assume we must be on a downward trajectory, whereas in reality you can't really know where you are in history while it's happening.