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If you live in England and are not white are you considering leaving the country?

369 replies

GreyingSunshine · 29/08/2025 01:20

I'm really starting to worry about our future here now that anti immigration / nationalistic feelings are running so high. Our town is full of flags, reform is on the rise (and is pushing everyone, including the other parties further and further to the right) and every day there is news of some sort of anti immigration / anti asylum seekers / stop the boats protest. Dh has said for the first time ever that he doesn't feel safe anymore when out and about. I worry about the kids' future. They were born here and consider themselves British but what if a large proportion of the population doesn't? I feel it's just going to get worse.

I don't really want to leave. I have lived here for more than 20 years. I feel at home here. My kids are at home here. We have a massive mortgage and I don't really fancy starting all over again now that I'm in my mid forties. Also, not sure where we could go as the whole world seems to be becoming more right wing and intolerant and more importantly we obviously both would need to find new jobs first.

Is anyone else worried? Is anyone else considering emigrating? At what point would you say that we (as in anyone visibly not ethnic English or Anglo saxons or whatever, ie not white) need to get out?

OP posts:
MummySleepDeprived · 30/08/2025 09:59

I am foreign naturalised and white and DP is white foreign and not yet naturalised. We are what some consider "the good immigrants" in that we are white and from two different countries the UK favours as allies.

So I appreciate that we might not be quite your target response but also we are foreign and mobile so legit could leave.

We are staying but regularly weigh up options. Unfortunately my home country is worse right now and doesn't feel safer to immigrants, people of colour, public servants, anyone who dissents etc.

DP is moving forward with naturalisation so that if we do chose to leave it leaves the door open since our son was born here and it might be better when he's grown.

We aren't married and were never really bothered but know that makes immigration easier for us to be together elsewhere. We are considering it.

Finally, as a civil servant I fear what Reform will both do to civil service and make them do. I'm not sure I can personally work under that government.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 30/08/2025 10:05

If you did leave, OP, where would you choose to go? Which country is entirely free from racism/bigotry?

FollowSpot · 30/08/2025 10:08

Livelovebehappy · 30/08/2025 09:09

I think you’ll find that most posts digress, and comments linked to the subject are made…

And thus, as in this case, the thread is totally derailed away from the focus of the OP.

And in this case, where the OP is asking for the views and experiences of a minority / potentially vulnerable group of MNers.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 30/08/2025 11:52

Livelovebehappy · 30/08/2025 08:54

But if the poster wants opinions solely from none white people, surely they would have posted on the Black Mumsnetter site? That’s a ‘safe’ site for those wanting to exclude input from White mumsnetters, so I would expect it to have been posted there. If the poster posts on here, they can’t exclude others from commenting. That’s not how it works, and I can imagine the uproar had someone posted and asked that POC don’t comment on a post. It’s goady at best…..

But im not black. Im brown.

its not just black and white.

the thread title clearly states if you are not white.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 30/08/2025 11:56

Livelovebehappy · 30/08/2025 09:13

Nobody is being herded onto any other site at all. But you can’t start excluding other posters just because you want to. There’s tons of subjects on MN discussed whereby someone posting doesn’t necessarily have experience, but chips in with helpful or relevant comments. I feel on this post, other posters do have other comments that may be relevant or helpful to the poster.

So what is the mentality of someone seeing a thread title asking for opinions from non white people and deciding to post?

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 30/08/2025 12:00

Livelovebehappy · 30/08/2025 08:54

But if the poster wants opinions solely from none white people, surely they would have posted on the Black Mumsnetter site? That’s a ‘safe’ site for those wanting to exclude input from White mumsnetters, so I would expect it to have been posted there. If the poster posts on here, they can’t exclude others from commenting. That’s not how it works, and I can imagine the uproar had someone posted and asked that POC don’t comment on a post. It’s goady at best…..

🤦🏽‍♀️

Rainydayinlondon · 30/08/2025 12:05

I suppose us white people (some of us with immigrant parents), want to reassure non whites that it’s only a small minority who are actively racist.

By not allowing comments to this effect , it could create an echo chamber which doesn’t reflect reality.

I am sad to hear that non white people are being called names in the street and on the tube. I saw evidence of this ( albeit rarely) in the 1980s , but have not come across it since. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen by the way, but I don’t think it’s commonplace ( certainly in London).

FatCyclist · 30/08/2025 12:33

Migrant here. I so feel for you OP. By an accident of birth my skin is white and I am so aware how fortunate that makes me, as I receive a lot less abuse than other migrants. It really sucks and I'm so sorry for what you are going through.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 30/08/2025 12:41

Rainydayinlondon · 30/08/2025 12:05

I suppose us white people (some of us with immigrant parents), want to reassure non whites that it’s only a small minority who are actively racist.

By not allowing comments to this effect , it could create an echo chamber which doesn’t reflect reality.

I am sad to hear that non white people are being called names in the street and on the tube. I saw evidence of this ( albeit rarely) in the 1980s , but have not come across it since. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen by the way, but I don’t think it’s commonplace ( certainly in London).

I was spat on in the 90s.

Racial slurs all the way through. Told i stank
even teachers would make weird comments.

And the best I could hope for “I hate all *, oh but your alright”

Yes it has lessened since then. But I think it’s changed. It’s not overt as it used to be. Some lads shouted something pointedly at me in the shop. It made me upset as it’s been awhile.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 30/08/2025 12:44

@Rainydayinlondon I do understand what you’re saying and yes I agree it is a minority. But I felt the discussion was derailed by some posters.

FatCyclist · 30/08/2025 12:45

White person here. Those of you who claim that people are "just concerned about mass immigration" and are not racist are being incredibly naive.

I am a migrant. Because I'm white and I've lived here long enough to no longer have a foreign accent, many people assume I'm British and whinge away about migrants. When I tell them I'm a migrant too, they immediately say "oh but we don't mean people like you!" People like what, exactly? The only difference between me and a "bad" migrant in many people's eyes is the colour of my skin. So please don't pretend that anti-migrant sentiment is not racist.

OtterlieSaint · 30/08/2025 14:58

Dappy777 · 29/08/2025 17:34

Both my husband and I will be voting Reform. Now let me explain why. (It may interest you to hear from the 'other side' in all this.) About two years ago, I noticed that I'd stopped watching TV. I also noticed that I was re-watching old British TV shows like Colditz and Brideshead Revisited and Monty Python, and films like Bridge on the River Kwai and Withnail and I. I was reading more as well. But instead of reading contemporary fiction, I was re-reading P. G. Wodehouse and Dickens and Jane Austen. And I was going on YouTube and watching endless clips of Stephen Fry and Blackadder and Fawlty Towers. None of this was conscious. I didn't decide to do it. Then it occurred to me that I was doing this because I was desperately clinging on to my English-British identity.

When immigration happens on a small scale, and the people who immigrate have an affection for the culture they are migrating to, it can work. If you are also highly selective, and only allow in the skilled and educated, it really can enrich your country. But when you have mass immigration, and the people who come in either know nothing about, or literally despise, the place they are moving to, that culture is finished.

Imagine an experiment. You take a country like, say, South Korea, and you move ten million white Germans there. What will happen to Korean identity? Obviously it will be transformed. Now imagine you move 20 million Polish people to Argentina. What is going to happen to Argentinian identity? Again, obviously it would be transformed.

No one asked for mass immigration. No one was given a vote on it. Multiculturalism has simply been imposed on us. The left have an iron grip on the BBC, the universities, the arts and the publishing industry, and they do all they can to promote immigration and make us hate and reject our own history and culture. If you can make people reject their own identity they will gladly embrace a new one. I remember once tuning in to a Radio 4 programme about the poet Tennyson. Within five minutes they'd linked him to colonialism and slavery, and that was it, that was all they talked about. You only have to look at the history section in Waterstones. It might as well be called the "How Britain Ruined the World Section". Let me give you just one more trivial example. A book was published a while ago attacking Churchill. The author claimed he'd advocated dropping poisoned gas on "native peoples". In reality, he'd advocated dropping tear gas on them, something used today to disperse rioting crowds. The author deliberately misrepresented him to make him look as toxic as possible. We are being taught to hate ourselves. It's like an abusive husband who tells his wife she's fat and ugly and useless. He breaks her self-esteem. Of course, once he's broken her self-esteem and made her hate herself, he can do what he likes with her.

I no longer feel English-British. I no longer feel like I live in a nation with a shared history and a shared identity. My ancestors fought and bled in both WW1 and WW2, but if there was a war tomorrow, I'd feel nothing. I no longer have a nation or tribe to defend. This 'gammon' will be sitting out the next war.

I have never met a Reform voter who believed in racial superiority or who hated all non-white people. I have a lovely Indian neighbour. It genuinely upsets me to think that she feels hurt or threatened by the English flags painted on the local roundabout. I don't hate non-white people, but I do hate the bullying, sneering globalist left who have destroyed my identity. I hate their guts. I hate people like Owen Jones and Stewart Lee and Will Self, and they hate me. The problem isn't immigration itself. It's the speed and scale of immigration, and the way the left use it to destroy people's old identity and impose a new one on them. Now that is fascism.

Let me end by saying that there are many, many non-white people I love and admire. There are many, many non-white people I consider 100% English-British. Quick example. I watched a documentary on the Falklands war in which they interviewed a British-Nigerian guy who'd fought in the Parachute Regiment. Amazing man. My husband and I both said what an incredible human being he was and both of us are proud to think we share a national identity with him. People are voting Reform not out of arrogance or aggression or a wish to assert superiority. They are voting Reform because they're desperately clinging on to their identity. An identity, let me add, that many non-white people also want to preserve.

I think all the sneery people pretending that suddenly there’s lots of “ racism” due to “ thick gammon” are full of hatred for the UK , and if they are British, they have a form of self hatred. It’s toxic.
It’s UK- dysmorphia.

Honestly, when you see BBC programmes where they’ve crowbarred black actors into shows, it’s so patronising. I’m embarrassed, as a poc, to be so patronised. They don’t need to force black faces into everything to prove they aren’t racist. It’s racist to over compensate. It’s patriarchal.

Falling over yourself to prove you aren’t racist is racist : Why are you thinking about race so much?!?! There, there, the BBC will integrate poc for you all to see. Oh yuck. Stop it!

MissyB1 · 30/08/2025 15:08

OtterlieSaint · 30/08/2025 14:58

I think all the sneery people pretending that suddenly there’s lots of “ racism” due to “ thick gammon” are full of hatred for the UK , and if they are British, they have a form of self hatred. It’s toxic.
It’s UK- dysmorphia.

Honestly, when you see BBC programmes where they’ve crowbarred black actors into shows, it’s so patronising. I’m embarrassed, as a poc, to be so patronised. They don’t need to force black faces into everything to prove they aren’t racist. It’s racist to over compensate. It’s patriarchal.

Falling over yourself to prove you aren’t racist is racist : Why are you thinking about race so much?!?! There, there, the BBC will integrate poc for you all to see. Oh yuck. Stop it!

I don’t think there’s suddenly lots of racists, I know full well they were always there. I do think that due to the behaviour between certain politicians, far right groups, and the media, those racists now feel
emboldened to be loud, proud, and to make their presence known and felt.

MummySleepDeprived · 30/08/2025 15:46

@Pinkfluffypencilcasebecause if white migrants, the kind with privilege who can "pass," are also taking stock, we are saying we agree with OP's concerns. We might be white but we are second tier in a racist and anti migrant climate- and taking good jobs. People are happy for us to pay lots of taxes but not hog the good jobs.

On a regional holiday DP who is "more foreign" than me was basically told "hmm you're not from around here" over and over in a touristy area. He was very uncomfortable by it. Outside my work are flags and crosses.

One reason DP is looking at naturalising now is because we aren't convinced a reform government wouldn't firm up the timelines or requirements for citizenship pathways.

But let's get back in our box then and not discuss the issues we are all noticing.

MummySleepDeprived · 30/08/2025 15:56

@FatCyclistfully agree about getting told you're one of the good ones, getting a glimpse of what is behind the veneer. I think Brexit was voted around here because there were too many Polish and Romanian people. There is a definitely a ranking for all of us who are either British but non white, foreign but the acceptable ones, and foreign and not. I'm under no illusion acceptable is fixed so we also monitor.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 30/08/2025 16:04

MummySleepDeprived · 30/08/2025 15:46

@Pinkfluffypencilcasebecause if white migrants, the kind with privilege who can "pass," are also taking stock, we are saying we agree with OP's concerns. We might be white but we are second tier in a racist and anti migrant climate- and taking good jobs. People are happy for us to pay lots of taxes but not hog the good jobs.

On a regional holiday DP who is "more foreign" than me was basically told "hmm you're not from around here" over and over in a touristy area. He was very uncomfortable by it. Outside my work are flags and crosses.

One reason DP is looking at naturalising now is because we aren't convinced a reform government wouldn't firm up the timelines or requirements for citizenship pathways.

But let's get back in our box then and not discuss the issues we are all noticing.

That’s ok. You’re not dismissing the concerns and are adding to the discussion.

Namitynamename · 30/08/2025 16:14

@Dappy777 out of interest did you think Wodehouse's depiction of Spode was unfair stereotyping? It sort of was - all the books are quite cartoonist but don't you think that the same type of book, with the same characters written today would maybe feel more offense to you if that makes sense? But wodehouse etc have the benefit of time. It's nostalgia

SquishedMallow · 30/08/2025 21:46

Holluschickie · 30/08/2025 08:01

Yes, get back to the parts of the website meant for you.🙄

Don't be so fucking obtuse. Blackmumsnetters wasn't created by white people. It was created by black people when only black opinions were wanted. That's not my doing !

So I'm saying, I'm commenting because this is an open forum with no caveats on who can and can't post, so I'll post if I want to.

SquishedMallow · 30/08/2025 21:48

OtterlieSaint · 30/08/2025 14:58

I think all the sneery people pretending that suddenly there’s lots of “ racism” due to “ thick gammon” are full of hatred for the UK , and if they are British, they have a form of self hatred. It’s toxic.
It’s UK- dysmorphia.

Honestly, when you see BBC programmes where they’ve crowbarred black actors into shows, it’s so patronising. I’m embarrassed, as a poc, to be so patronised. They don’t need to force black faces into everything to prove they aren’t racist. It’s racist to over compensate. It’s patriarchal.

Falling over yourself to prove you aren’t racist is racist : Why are you thinking about race so much?!?! There, there, the BBC will integrate poc for you all to see. Oh yuck. Stop it!

Excellent post. This is what I've been trying to say ! But obviously it's better coming from people who are actually black. At least you may be listened to (and rightly so )

Holluschickie · 30/08/2025 21:50

SquishedMallow · 30/08/2025 21:46

Don't be so fucking obtuse. Blackmumsnetters wasn't created by white people. It was created by black people when only black opinions were wanted. That's not my doing !

So I'm saying, I'm commenting because this is an open forum with no caveats on who can and can't post, so I'll post if I want to.

I am not black. Calm it with the swearing.

You can post anywhere you want to.But I think it is deeply obtuse and pointless to respond to a post specifically asking for non-white people's responses.

SquishedMallow · 30/08/2025 21:55

Holluschickie · 30/08/2025 21:50

I am not black. Calm it with the swearing.

You can post anywhere you want to.But I think it is deeply obtuse and pointless to respond to a post specifically asking for non-white people's responses.

"no whites allowed"

🤦

Well done. Keep going....

By the way, swearing is permitted on Mumsnet.

You didn't have to tell me you were white. Believe me, that was obvious.

Holluschickie · 30/08/2025 21:56

The next time someone posts saying " If you celebrate Xmas, please give me Xmas gifts ideas" I am going to respond " Hey, I am so lucky I don't celebrate Xmas". Because this is an open forum where anybody can respond, even if the responses are plain stupid.

SquishedMallow · 30/08/2025 21:57

"calm it with the swearing"

"Don't post on here because you're white "

Clearly @Holluschickie virtue signalling only works one way.

My posts were valid and balanced. I did not mention anything about reform or who I was voting for (my posts on here are all still up for anyone that's curious)

Holluschickie · 30/08/2025 21:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SquishedMallow · 30/08/2025 21:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

"idiot"

Have you finished with your personal attacks ?