If you live in England and are not white are you considering leaving the country?

[GreyingSunshine]

I'm really starting to worry about our future here now that anti immigration / nationalistic feelings are running so high. Our town is full of flags, reform is on the rise (and is pushing everyone, including the other parties further and further to the right) and every day there is news of some sort of anti immigration / anti asylum seekers / stop the boats protest. Dh has said for the first time ever that he doesn't feel safe anymore when out and about. I worry about the kids' future. They were born here and consider themselves British but what if a large proportion of the population doesn't? I feel it's just going to get worse.

I don't really want to leave. I have lived here for more than 20 years. I feel at home here. My kids are at home here. We have a massive mortgage and I don't really fancy starting all over again now that I'm in my mid forties. Also, not sure where we could go as the whole world seems to be becoming more right wing and intolerant and more importantly we obviously both would need to find new jobs first.

Is anyone else worried? Is anyone else considering emigrating? At what point would you say that we (as in anyone visibly not ethnic English or Anglo saxons or whatever, ie not white) need to get out?

I can absolutely see how you’re feeling. I live in a very small rural affluent town in the South East. It’s the only place locally that doesn’t have the current spit and fury on social media - quite the opposite. We have no flags, we have no red graffiti. What we do have is increasingly more ethnic minorities and nobody is worried about that. I’m really proud of here at the moment. I know a person of colour who lives locally who I talked to on this topic and he’s never experienced any racism. I was surprised by that, I just assumed he would have.

Bigger towns localish to us are full of flags, racist graffiti, road markings being tampered with. I can totally see why anyone not white would be intimidated.

So if you can afford it move affluent and rural. PM me and move here!

Totally agree.

They’re doing it for the clicks with no hint of social responsibility. And I believe anyone with
power and influence should follow a code of conduct. As suggested in the Hillsborough legislation- though I think k that’s been watered down now unfortunately.

You’re either niave or disingenuous if you believe that. Why are idiots climbing up ladders and putting the St George’s flag specifically on Chinese, Indian, Turkish restaurants and businesses? (I’ve seen lots of videos on Instagram of this).

Most of the people who own the businesses were born in this country or have been here for decades. They are terrified for their families, including their BRITISH children- there is NOTHING “illegal” about them.

So stop with the “it’s only illegals” rhetoric.

I, like the majority deplore the nasty rhetoric and 'othering'.
As a white English/Welsh/Irish mongrel I am so grateful for our diverse population. Those with narrow, closed minds are the ones who think it's acceptable to use our lovely flags as symbols of division.
I would like the towns plastered in flags to represent all the different nationalities who are staffing our hospitals, universities, care homes, schools, hotels and other places of work often with unsociable hours and not great pay.
The majority of us appreciate our melting pot of humanity and feel nothing but compassion for those fleeing war and unsafe regimes.

They’re not illegal.

I have noticed a lot more racist language amongst people I know - it’s a very resent thing and that frightens me, it feels like racism is becoming more socially acceptable.

No I won’t be leaving. There are a lot of flags where I live.

Why would I leave - this is my home. I refuse to give too much weight to social media and what goes on. If things were actually difficult in real life I may feel different but nothing could be further from the truth.

Why isn’t this headline news?

Im sick of Farage’s face being everywhere. The media give so much air time to that bell end. Never here about anything Ed Davey as to say.

l’m sick of the hard right being headline news. It just fans the flames.

I’m white by the way. I live in a big northern city. There’s no flags at all in my Labour voting constituency

I don't know. I can see where you are coming from, but Thatcher's government polled poorly a similar time after they got in. They were in for several terms.

Politics these days is a very different beast than it was then though. There are no political heavyweights on either side, social media is full of bollocks that people actually seem to believe, the news outlets give more air time to inappropriate topics than they should, and everyone just wants soundbites and no substance.

I think if Reform were to get in today, then it would definitely be chaos. I also agree (sadly) that there is a fair chance he will do better at the next GE, although I still hold out hope that there are enough sensible people left to prevent that.

He does have four years to get his act together, and work out what he would do if he were elected. Fortunately for the sensible people, I don't believe he will as he is too much of an arrogant twat spouting populist bullshit to actually do the homework required to run a country. And then, it will be chaos.

We also have four more years of Labour quietly making improvements, some of which will be a lot more visible by then. That may also change opinion and will give Starmer more credibility.

The world is a worrying place right now. Its not the whole country - my family is quite spread out and none of us has encountered the flags and tension we keep hearing about. I think you'd struggle to find an affordable country in Europe that doesn't have a lot of the same sentiment, sometimes worse. Same for Australia & New Zealand. I don't know about the rest of the world.
It's not something I've experienced and only you know how you feel, but if I were you I'd take a break from social media, arrange lots of meet ups with friends in local cafes, take a deep breath and see if there really is a change in the feeling of the place. My belief is that everyone needs someone to blame for the troubles in life and with the state of the economy, the fallout from lockdown, the situation in Ukraine and Gaza, the constant footage of boats full of people, the awful politicians around the world, and sm incitement has helped create this terrible trend that will calm down soon. Normality and solidarity will win, I hope!

No but we are also in London. I find it quite a change when I leave London and go to towns in the south east - they seem to be far far far less diverse than London. I guess as expected. But there is something for Living in a diverse area as opposed
town where 95% of the people are a similar race. I googled the stats last night interestingly and my borough is 50% white and the market towns i visited recently in the SE are 95% white. I have also heard casual racism in these towns from people who don’t even realise they’re behind racist - it’s awful. I personally would not leave London for this reason.

I would leave if I were younger. I was born here, so have no real ties to anywhere else, I’m too old to be an attractive immigrant to anywhere I would want to go, and I have a very established career here. DH is white so unlikely to have trouble. But I’m encouraging DD to think of alternative options for her future: I don’t want her life blighted by racist knuckle-draggers. (We’re in London, I got yelled at to ‘go back where you came from’ on the Tube this week.)

Going back to our home country is always a back up…. My kids will be disappointed because London is home to them. But with their good grades and bilingualism, a move to a different educational system should be easy. Uni will be much cheaper too! As for me, I will finish my NHS-funded doctoral training before going back to my country - i am about to start my final year so now is not the right time to stop! DH will have no problem finding another job back home. Since Brexit, lots of opportunities in his sector have moved to the continent, so it would be a good move for him. I guess with the sky rocket property prices in London, selling our family home will enable us to buy a very good house home where prices are cheaper…
Sure we will miss the UK and our friends here but I am not ready to put myself or my kids through fear and discrimination.

I feel the same. Especially after Farage published his so called plan to stop all “illegal immigration” and deport those here. The BBC and The Guardian have broken it down and showed that’s it’s an unrealistic pie-in-the-sky idea that would cost billions so would never work. But as usual with Farage, he’s just saying what people want to hear and they lap it up.

OP I’m so sorry you’re feeeling as you are, I totally understand why. I’m so glad I live in London where you’re much less likely to see the flags and all that shit.

I'm from an ethnic minority and I've been considering moving to DH's home country, so yes. But it's more for economic reasons than racism. I think the prospects and the tax treatment is more favourable elsewhere. But at the moment it's not much more than a bit of internet research. We have a lot of ties in the UK and our dcs are settled at school here. I live in London and I don't notice any racist sentiment going about my daily life - it's something I only see via the news about other places.

I know it’s probably pointless saying this to you, but the people who are in the hotels are not illegal. You are only deemed an illegal immigrant once your case has been processed and you decide to remain despite your case failing.
Arriving on a small boat to claim asylum is not illegal. International law says that people
have the right to claim asylum. Small boat crossings are responsible for less than 5% of immigration. People who fail in their asylum claim are already deported.
Do you really think the people who are protesting and support Reform and Farage are going to stop and question people about their immigration status before verbally abusing and harassing them? Or will they just look at their race. There have been numerous cases of this in the press.

This is so true.
First the small boats

Then, spin a bottle and pick any minority/vulnerable group.

Ds works as a political commentator in the national press.

His take is: if Labour are still struggling at election time ( although he thinks they won’t be) they will change the voting system to PR or similar before the next GE. There’s so many new parties that the Lab/Con thing with Lib Dem in the background of old doesn’t really represent the country anymore.

And also the majority of people don’t want Reform in. So they will vote for the party most likely to defeat them. Ie, Greens and Lib Dem may switch allegiance to Labour. Remembet 70% of people don’t want Reform.

lm fucking sick of the media giving so much airtime to big gob Farage and the rest of the right wing shit. It’s a small part of the news but is dominating everything.

This is one of the reasons I don't worry, Brits are by in large not at all racist - various people have had a bash at setting up "hard right" movements starting with Oswald Mosely and his black shirts in the 30's.

None have gained any real deep seated support or traction, many have been considered a bad joke, and all have been mini cults of personality driven by one protagonist and fold as soon as they go.

We do need a tight, functional and fair immigration policy and to resolve the "boats" issue, once that is sorted I can't see any anti feeling persisting in a big way.

You’re falling for the myth that everyone currently anti immigration is racist. They’re not. Whatever your race, we should all be concerned about uncontrolled immigration, because it affects us all. Just because there are people voicing concerns about the high number of immigrants coming to the country, it doesn’t mean they are hostile towards those of different races already here. There will of course be a small minority of racists taking advantage of the current unrest, but you need to see the bigger picture here. Our infrastructure is collapsing - housing stock and NHS are dire. There should at least be a pause on immigration whilst the country is repaired, which will also give the government chance to create a sustainable immigration policy for the future.

Well my white immigrant dh is now saying he feels unwelcome in this country, and he’s been here for 30 years working in the NHS. So I get why you are worried OP. The constant anti immigrant rhetoric that we are all hearing on the news and social media is really upsetting and worrying. But I also agree with other posters who point out that the media have to take some responsibility for this, they are giving far too much of a voice to the likes of Farage. But also politicians in general need to take responsibility and stop promoting division /hatred/blame for all the problems in our society. And our bloody prime minister needs to stop pandering to the far right because he’s worried about Reform, he’s at risk of sounding just like them!! If Reform do get in at the next election though (and actually I doubt it), then we will leave.

It is not illegal to claim asylum. People have the right to do so. They have the right to be housed and fed while their asylum claim is being processed. People only become illegal if their asylum claim fails and they then do not leave the county when told to do so, after due appeals process etc.
The people living in hotels are therefore not here illegally.
The idiots putting up flags are not doing so out of a sense of pride for the country but to intimidate and frighten people. Farage and his band of Trump wannabes want power, not a fair and just society. People putting up flags are simply playing into their hands.

it never ceases to amaze me that the media give Farage so much oxygen when other parties with similar or larger numbers of supporters (Lib Dem, Green) get next to no air time. The media is complicit in whipping up hate, because hate sells.

Oh and to answer the OP - oh is an immigrant and I suspect we would consider leaving if reform came to power, but also don’t want to cave in to petty hatred.

Honestly, I'd leave but where would I go? I'm Welsh, Arab, My Husband is an Irish, St Lucian. My kids are all of that.

I live in London. No issues here. Although. The outskirts are terrible. I live on the edge of Herts. And Essex and the flags are flying within 2 miles of us. I have no issue with people flying the flag because they are patriotic. It the undercurrent.

These people claim to be relaiming the country. Its a joke. They need to learn their own history. They also all need DNA tests before spouting of their nonsense.

The hypocrisy is a joke. I think they need the courage of their convictions. They should buy products only from the UK. Be treated and serviced by people only from the UK. Holiday only in the UK.