Hate how racist everything has become, and how quickly it’s happened.

[Silverbirchleaf]

I was just looking at facebook, and a ‘Sad face’ newsmaker article came up. Practically all the comments mentioned boats, asylum seekers etc etc. Its really getting me down.

Travelled to the south west last weekend. On the way down no flags on bridges. On the way back, in some areas, every bridge.

Its scary how quickly it’s all happening.

A woman I know of is a manager at a pretty fast paced, and heavy work load place. 8am - 6pm 5 days a week. She's on her feet for a lot of the time. The place is open 6 days, but in reality she should have one day off in the week, and Sundays.
She told her higher managers, when she started the job 6 or so months ago, that she needed every Saturday off for chemotherapy for ovarian cancer. Thus, technically, she has every weekend off, which none of the other employees are able to do, unless it's booked holiday. Nobody else has every Saturday off. They can work their days off so that every so often they could, just not every one.
They're open every bank holiday Monday, which they all work, unless it's booked holiday.
She phoned up yesterday, and said she wouldn't be in on this b/h Monday as her 'aunt is ill'
This chemotherapy has, apparently, been every Saturday for the last six months, with no end date mentioned at all. The bosses seem to be pretty lax about checking things. We're beginning to suspect her stories, especially this last one, her aunt conveniently being ill on a bh Monday.
The lady herself is never ill, tired, anything to suggest she may be going through a gruelling regime of chemo (my friend and I have both had it, and know other people too, and it's knocked us all for six in one way or another) no hair loss, no skin changes etc etc, which are all tell tale signs. I know everyone's different, but...
Is it really bad that we're beginning to question her? (not just us by the way)
I guess we were all prepared to let it go, although it's a heck of a long course of chemo, but for the fact of this story about her aunt. It simply doesn't ring true, and it's not fair on the other employees.
What do you all think?

An efficient processing system and swift deportation would probably be preferable to many.

I am in Australia and the thing you have to remember is that we are very geographically isolated from the rest of the world, so it’s easy to have these controls. With your proximity to Europe and the Channel not being very wide, it would be difficult for the UK to replicate Australia’s system.

But even controls cost serious money. So it’s not necessarily going to end up in the NHS. Australia operates offshore facilities to house boat arrivals. There aren’t that many of them but they cost billions to run. There has been reports that the funds from these contracts end up where it shouldn’t.

Even with boat arrival controls, our legal immigration is very high. We have 30% overseas born compared to UK’s 17%. We aren’t seeing the same level of fuss made here to the degree seen in the UK and I reckon that’s because social media bots ignore Australia.

I agree

1. This isn't flag flying. It's vandalism.
2. This is part of a social media campaign called Operation Raise your Colours which is being driven by right wing extremists who have racist ideology.
3. It's a show of aggressive patriotism with the purpose of inciting challenge

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/sam-freedman-demonising-migrants-wont-fill-jobs-or-boost-falling-populations

Maybe have a little read.

Firstly we are talking about the flags not vandalism or graffiti. People should not be spraying anything anywhere. So let’s just get that straight.

Secondly, flying flags is not racist. and it never will be. The St George’s flag belongs to our country - not to a far right party of any kind. It is a reclaiming of the flag, and its meaning from said political parties that is happening here. You seem to be confused.

Lastly, you are making tensions even worse by screeching racist at every flag, it is offensive to the people you claim to speak for, and by doing so you are watering down the meaning and true harm of racism.

Be positive, be proud. In America, and here in France there are flags everywhere. We will not live in shame any longer. No for you, not for anyone. I fully support the flags. 🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

It’s summer, people are bored and there’s nothing in the news. All UK unrest happens in August which is why there defo is money behind a campaign somewhere and many Brits are falling for it.

Why are they falling for it? Because there are genuine problems and it’s not racist to say it, we have people dying in corridors in A&E, underfunded schools, an explosion of unmet SEN, rising prices and an acute housing shortage. Without expanding vital public services we have no more space. People are making a choice of how they want public services and money to be run.

Its not the way to do it and I don’t know what the answer is but its not just “racist”.

Scot flying Scottish flag in Scotland = proud patriot
Welsh flying Welsh flag in Wales = proud patriot
American flying US flag in US = proud patriot
French flying French flag in France = proud patriot
English flying English flag in England = hateful racist

Can you not see why this take might piss some people off? That other people in other nations, including the ones that neighbour ours, are allowed to be proud of their country, allowed to want to protect its culture, allowed to fly its flag in the streets and display it outside their homes- but if we do it, we’re automatically painted as right wing nut job racists.

We’re not allowed to be proud to be English. We’re not allowed to want to preserve English culture and values. We’re not allowed to think that a large influx of mainly young men arriving illegally, hailing from nations and following a religion with what could at best be described as a draconian attitude towards women may not necessarily be a wonderful thing. We’re not allowed to point out that these men aren’t “fleeing war” (unless war has broken out in Calais), they’ve actually travelled through several safe countries to get here. We’re not allowed to point out that while we “only” take the 5th highest number of migrants of any European country, we’re actually only the 11th largest country in terms of size so in that respect we’re really doing pretty well.

No no. We must suppress any pride we might feel in being English people from England, we must whip our own backs for the sins of our colonialist, imperialist, enslaving ancestors and continue to dilute English culture down until it just isn’t a thing anymore (which some would argue it already isn’t).

Edited to add that I am the grandchild of migrants on both sides, and my grandparents were proud to come here. But they came legally, and adopted and immersed themselves in their new way of life. My grandmother and her sisters rarely spoke Hindi even to one another when they were alone together. Now you can be sitting on a bus or train and not understand a single word spoken by a single person around you. That is what NF and his ilk are capitalising on. That feeling of frustration at the idea that to be proud of being English in England is shameful, and that Englishness itself is being eroded and chipped away at until it won’t exist anymore.

I'm sure it would. I think efforts are being made to speed processes up as there was a huge back log. In the meantime, would you still rather they were on the streets?

Personally I would deport millions of immigrants, ones who have been here years. I would offer them 25k each to move back to wherever they came from. It's frankly a hell of a lot cheaper than them being here for the rest of their lives.

The pace of cultural change imposed on us by immigrants is not something anyone voted on. I dislike the crime and the views they have brought with them from their homeland.

In the 1990s in the town I was growing up in there were sufficient numbers of excess council houses that some of them were being demolished by the labour council and schools were being closed because they were empty. Homes were a lot more affordable then, one of the factors driving the housing shortage is the enormous volume of immigrants.

When I see a union jack or st George's flag flying I am pleased. I remember how the labour said it was racist to fly them but they are the party who hate British people and are on the side of benefit claimants, criminals and immigrants.

In a perfect nutshell this is exactly it ^ and people - tens of millions of people have had enough.

I am deeply proud of my country, I love living in England, it is a beautiful country, and I care about our future. It is a damn shame that others are so lost and misguided that they can not find it within themselves to celebrate what is good about England, and Englishness and the need to look after what we have, and to value our own culture, history and freedoms.

The negativity, the name calling and the general malaise from some of the pp is so damaging - and it’s especially damaging to them. I wonder if it’s a collective movement of self harm and self sabotage, or a mental health issue. It is not healthy to want to live in constant shame and negativity, and worse still to inflict it on others.

1. My initial post which you responded to clearly referenced a red cross painted on a roundabout. Not a flag.

1. Far right groups have often appropriated the flag as a symbol which is why many people feel uncomfortable. There is a very anti-immigrant rhetoric right now and this feels sinister rather than a show of pride. The fact that this movement is being driven by far right groups highlights this.

1. I have no need to wave a flag around to show I'm proud. I have no association to the flag. As a white British person, it does not form part of my national identity and in fact, because I associate it with a value system which is removed from my own then I find it alienating. Go ahead and wave your flag but I'll pass thanks.

I think you'll find that the Right to Buy scheme introduced by Margaret Thatcher has impacted the amount of social housing available far more than immigration.

Many , many immigrants were white. Of course they were. Irish, Huguenot, Russian refugees to name a few.

The thread is about the flags. You seem to be posting about something else entirely! Can you read the original post or did you miss that?

How are you proud of England? What makes your proud? Can you see why others might like to celebrate their own culture? Or is that just for other people in your small, narrow world view?

How very true. Well said.

Funnily enough I did read it. I think vandalism of roundabouts is occurring under the same patriotic guise.

Interesting how you feel the need to insult me because I don't share your view.

Things that make me proud and which I associate with my cultural identity are good manners, tolerance, inclusivity and kindness. These are values I associate with being British and sadly I don't associate flag waving, as is being done in this current wave, as associated with those values.

Where is your ‘tolerance’ and ‘kindness’ when it comes to your fellow neighbours enjoying flying a flag or two? I can’t see that you are being inclusive at all. You do realise that being genuinely inclusive includes being kind to those that don’t always align with your own political beliefs?

I find your virtual signalling and insincerity quite infuriating actually.

When have I been unkind or intolerant? My neighbours are welcome to fly a flag. Just because I wouldn't doesn't mean I would be rude. Unlike you, who, because I don't prescribe to your views, has insinuated that I'm narrow minded, virtue signalling and insincere. Let's hope your rudeness is not representative of all flag flyers hey!

That’s the thing isn’t it. Kindness and inclusiveness for all those who agree with the speaker’s own views. Anyone who has a different view is attacked, cancelled, labelled, anything but kind and inclusive. It’s the sort of hounding, vilifying and bullying many immigrants are trying to escape. We live in a country that is increasingly split between left wing radicalism , right wing ideology and then the people stuck in the middle who are just trying to lead decent lives. Often those with ‘traditional’ British views and behaviour. The terribly unfashionable people who are ignored in the current system.

For some people who are very hard of thinking. If you take 50,000 refugees and you think they are depriving the country of services /benefits / jobs whatever your complaint is.

Just work out what percentage those 50,000 are of the whole UK population.

I'll tell you.

It's 0.07%

What flags?

Not sure I would agree this has been a sudden change, actually it's been gradual over years. People are disgruntled, have been shouted down and called racist for having an opinion about immigration. I'm mixed race with a parent who came here but I can see there are issues with immigration and a lack of control over it.denyjng that makes the shouting louder that's what we are now seeing. This government are making very bold moves that aren't supported by those who are pushing back.

Unfortunately lack of listening to others views has exasperated the situation and here we are.

If you are shocked at here, look to other counties outside of the UK, the views are very much the same as what we are seeing Poland is one to have a look at, Germany also, Sweden even.

You seem to perceive someone expressing their views and experiences with you as ‘rude’ when I just see it as honesty.

Your posts come across as pious and insincere - for example your post said ‘I do not ‘associate’ which is the very opposite of inclusivity - and it is othering. The point being that you are not inclusive. You are not kind. Your manners leave a lot to be desired.

You distort other people’s values and national pride as ‘racist’ and connected with some kind of FR thuggery, and your ‘inclusivity’ only stretches to those that you ‘associate’ with in your own small political sphere. Everyone else is a far right racist. Even when they clearly aren’t.

You are not in reality inclusive at all are you. Nor have you any capacity or tolerance to consider any other views apart from your own/those just like you. Can you not see the hypocrisy?