What happens when stopping migration doesn't fix everything?

[Decisionsdecisions1]

What happens when migrants are stopped, returned, sent back and asylum seekers told to look elsewhere etc - what then?

What happens when housing is still unaffordable, when the NHS waiting lists are still too long, when the schools are still struggling, when 1 million young people are still unemployed, when wages still don't keep up with the cost of living and employment is still not secure enough?

Who is blamed then? Labour I would guess.

What will Reform or the Tories do to address those issues when they can no longer blame migrants?

This is a genuine question and no I'm not a journalist. I cannot get my head around how migration and any of those issues are linked sufficiently to make a difference.

If stopping migration would fix those issues I might actually be in favour of it (and I say that as an ethnic minority child of migrants).
But I think the problems are far broader.

If you protested against migrants or support the protesters - What's your view?

I seem to be in some parallel universe -v high immigration started 20 years ago with T Blair when we had 200,000 per year mostly east Europeans which the rest of Europe restricted numbers. Then Cameron promised to limit bumbers and TMay was home sec and promised to bring it below 250,00 per year and failed to do it. Numbers continued to increase year on year until Rishi bingoes on
900,000. That’s several million in total so if many go back home (which is a guess) there’s still a couple of million plus the ones who aren’t recorded over the last 20 years which could be any number -judging by the number of barbers shops in every town, nail salons there’s quite a lot.

They’re not going to send back migrants who have lived and worked in the UK legally for decades. They have savings and find a job and a house to buy before coming over. Please don’t lump them into the same category as illegal immigrants who are given money and free housing.

OP, are you talking about stopping all migration ( and sending some back?!?! This would be legal entries with visas) or are you talking about illegal migrants (= illegal unplanned entries)?
Because I think we should have zero illegal entries. And as it stands, we have lots of people just turning up undocumented, unchecked and uninvited. And to me that is a problem.

How does the NHS and social care work without migrants?

When one migrant worker brings a family of 4, 5, 6 + all adding pressure to those systems it's easy to see the imbalance.

There is a lot of naivety surrounding this subject.

And the iill and disable are in fashion too.

This is such cringey sixth form politics. Not everyone who has concerns about the rate of immigration hates all migrants and blames them for everything.
Those of us who live in poor, diverse areas that are already overcrowded sometimes have feelings about the way the area is changing. I know these feelings do not provoke any sympathy in people but I am afraid they happen. I have friends from all backgrounds (as I live in a poor diverse area) and we are all fed up of the intimidating groups of blokes in our town. My recently arrived legal migrant neighbour is struggling to find a doctor locally and I am trying to help her.
I know it’s unspeakable for many but uncontrolled illegal immigration can actually cause genuine problems for everyday people.

Not all stupid, but often easily influenced by sometimes slick (and mysteriously well funded) propaganda.

Someone else will become the scapegoat. It won't be rich, white men though.

When one migrant worker brings a family of 4, 5, 6 + all adding pressure to those systems it's easy to see the imbalance.There is a lot of naivety surrounding this subject.

But every migrant doesn't do that

They’ll blame people who migrated here several years back and who have had children and settled and will more publicly turn against them. It’ll be words to the effect of ‘if they hadn’t have all been allowed in and given a house and allowed to breed like rabbits, then my children would be able to get a job and a house and see a bloody Doctor.’

They will completely ignore and fail to recognise any positive contribution such people have made, including within their lives where no doubt they have been treated by a Doctor, Dentist or Surgeon who migrated or or a first or second generation migrant.

I’m white British and grew up in London and have heard this kind of rhetoric for many years - and still continue to where I live in Greater London. For some years the talk became quieter and harder to find (thank goodness), but it has become so much more easy to find in recent years - it is abundant.

I’ve always challenged it, but even more so now that I have mixed heritage children and a first generation migrant Husband.

Oh and another group I’ve heard being blamed locally for the housing shortage is the LGBT+ community.

Apparently ‘too many of that lot are living alone and taking up too many houses instead of getting married and having kids and living in one house.’

I have challenged the above statement in a variety of ways - but it’s like talking to a wall.

Oh, I thought it was us Boomers, living in our too-big-for old-people houses and not giving them up for younger folk to have them, that was causing the housing shortage @PomegranateVase. A whole article about it in yesterday’s Guardian

Oh, we are getting a comprehensive list of scapegoats!!

We are still directly looking at the politicians and their puppet masters, though. Most people are not that stupid.
I really think they underestimate us, massively. Just because those who fall for it are very loud, it does not mean that the silent majority is not getting what they are doing and getting angrier and angrier about it.

Yes I thought that. And having the temerity to claim our pensions.

People who think racism is about “illegal migrants” and I’m a good migrant and came from x country are about to have a very rude shock. I remember growing up with explicit racism and repatriation now. I am hearing this again after about two decades of silence. I do not think it ever went away, but the tone and conversation has totally altered in the last year for the worse. Britain would have to be a unique world leader to have a very right wing set of policies but not the racism and division to go with it. The language here gets more revealing by the day.

You are right that racism has nothing to do with paperwork indeed. And there are people who are racist in every country. And they are very loud.
But from there to the country's policies there is a very long and wide wide stretch. Though, this is the country that repatriated the adult children of the windrush generation and had serious issues with the Chagos forcibly displaced inhabitants and their descendants.
We really cannot say that UK will never ever deport hard working legal migrants.
I do not think that they will send back to the country of origin doctors and nurses, and pharmacists, and business owners, and teachers and so on that are contributing to the system, paying their taxes and working hard.
Because it is a two way road. Do this and take back your own citizens from the affected countries. I do not think this will happen.
Heated exchanges in the streets, yes, it could. UK government sending legal settled migrants back in mass, nope.

There! Another scape goat! And a large group!

I don't understand the point of this thread.

The current government is not trying to reduce immigration to zero. No government in recent history has ever tried to get immigration down to zero. Even if we somehow get a Reform government I am skeptical that they would get immigration down to zero.

You have got the policy you want. Be happy.

I'm old ebough to remember when all of society's ills were blamed on single mothers and their getting pregnat to get a council flat (remember those?).

Yes, a new scapegoat I imagine

Free housing? You mean being put up in hostels, that you would not wish to entertain, for yourself, or yours. And there is no recourse to benefits for people awaiting their asylum applications. So stop spreading such lies!

The reason why they rely on migration is to keep wages low and continue to exploit so i would welcome rgis stopping, so proper salaries are paid.
Also you can't send asylum seekers 'back' when they don't have ID docs . 95% of the boat people are here to stay. The reason why they get asylum is because it is cheaper to support them on benefits and make the find their own accommodation, not because of persecution

You can get health care and social care if you are No Recourse, but not housing .

Plus you do get benefits as an asylum seeker, not much but you have food and accommodation provided

It's the bare minimum to stop people being destitute.