Do the people being arrested for Palestine Action not know about the sledgehammer attack?

[noblegiraffe]

With 500-odd people having been arrested for expressing support for proscribed terrorist organisation Palestine Action, I'm just baffled as to why they are willing to get a criminal record which could bar them from travel to the USA and work in education for an organisation whose members attacked police officers with a sledgehammer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/disturbing-sledgehammer-attack-police-during-9463071

Regardless of whether this group should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation, surely no one should look at that and think 'yeah, that's a group I think should be allowed to continue to do its thing, attack a few more police officers with sledgehammers, that's the hill I'm willing to die on.'

Wouldn't you think 'I'm not sure if they should be proscribed as terrorists, but given the sledgehammer attack, I'm not going to turn up with banners in support and be arrested for them, I'll just get on with protesting the genocide instead because that's a better cause'.

So do they not know about the violence? Or do they not care and are willing to support violent organisations?

(note this is not a thread for debating Gaza, I want to talk about British people who are absolutely legally allowed to protest genocide but aren't allowed to support proscribed terrorist organisations - which is also not allowed on MN).

But I suspect people won’t believe a statement made by the Police, either…

"Police said sledgehammers, axes, whips and other homemade weapons were seized by officers at the scene."

This didn't really register before. WTF were the whips for?

If it was any other group, they wouldn’t be so quick to jump to their defence.

Like many issues nowadays, people have to make it all about themselves.

No one is being prevented from protesting about what Israel is doing in Gaza (a cause I largely agree with). What they cannot do is support a violent group which has threatened the UK's defence.

The founders of Palestine Action have also publicly supported the Hamas attacks.

I just looked this up. They said they were used to refuel Israeli fighter jets but this is false, they are apparently used for refuelling planes but have a different refuelling system to Israeli fighter jets so couldn't be used for this.

Well done on your research, Palestine Action

rubbish, you dont get arrested just for a protest normally, were they ALL arrested? unlikely

Yep, the RAF system for air to air re-fuelling ("probe and drogue") can't transfer fuel to an Israeli aircraft since they use the USAF style "boom" system.

That's been true for decades, is pretty basic info that is out there both in book form and on the web and so is available to anyone who cares to do even basic research.

Fundamentally the claims some made that the RAF were refuelling Israeli fighters were flat out lies.

That's catastrophically stupid, isn't it?

I mean, the people who damaged the planes at Brize Norton have committed a really serious crime. And they did it because they thought they were sabotaging planes that were used to refuel Israeli fighter jets and they weren't at all?

I guess it puts getting charged under the terrorism act for supporting a group that you thought were non-violent into perspective.

It’s a large body of people and in that group you’ve got one person who behaved abominably towards a police man and two people who caused incredibly expensive criminal damage to a plane. Unacceptable behaviour in every way but clearly not representative of the group as a whole. As I’ve previously stated, there are bad people in every large body of people, the NHS, education, religion and so on

@noblegiraffe

And they did it because they thought they were sabotaging planes that were used to refuel Israeli fighter jets and they weren't at all?

When the Brize case goes to trial it will be interesting to hear if the accused thought their actions would directly help those in Gaza (if so, how did they arrive at that conclusion and were they briefed by anyone?) or whether they were simply making a gesture by attacking two random airframes.

If you look at the Wikipedia page there is an awful lot more criminal damage than simply to a plane.

If you don't like people causing incredibly expensive criminal damage and think it is unacceptable behaviour, then you ought to be aware that it is actually very representative of Palestine Action.

It will certainly be interesting to hear their defence and whether it comes down to misinformation. However apparently the trial isn't scheduled till Jan 2027 so there's a while to wait yet.

Again out of date

or do we only bother with trial by the news now

Perhaps you can specify what exactly the gentleman who was using the sledgehammer as an offensive weapon committed the GBH with then?

Was it the whips?

He wasn’t

As it stands no one has been charged with using sledgehammers to attack people. As the charges state

If they had used them. The police would have evidence ( they reviewed all CCTV for example ) and they would have been charged accordingly

Not sure there’s any point repeating myself over and over.

Is it because this is PA that everyone is so quick to deny the facts
Sorry to burst the bubble but in the U.K. people are tried based on evidence. Not the papers.

What does using a sledgehammer as an offensive weapon mean? He was charged with this and the others weren't. What did he do with the sledgehammer that the others didn't? They were charged with using a sledgehammer, but not as an offensive weapon.

I've asked you this multiple times.

I’m not aware of violent behaviour being representative, however I’m always willing to research further. I do not support PA but like the majority feel hugely for the Palestinian people who are facing genocide. I strongly support freedom of speech and upholding liberties. Interestingly Europe seems to have a very different take on PA and does not consider them a terrorist group.

Attached is from wiki

They are least biased but based on unknown authors credibility is mixed

So anything on wiki should be read with a critical eye. However this is interesting based on potential Israeli involvement in proscribing PA as a terrorist organisation.

FOIs for intel sited

reading on
apologies complete waste of post was intending to attach

.

You said "....two people who caused incredibly expensive criminal damage to a plane. Unacceptable behaviour in every way but clearly not representative of the group as a whole"

How is causing incredibly expensive criminal damage not representative of the group as a whole?

Well presumably becuase if only two people have committed that there are far more than two members then it isn’t representative.

In the same way a few Islamist extremeists don’t represent Islam as a whole, a few paedophilic priests don’t represent the Catholic Church as a whole or a few aggressive Jewish settlers in Israel don’t represent the Jewish faith as a whole.

No, I for one didn't know about PA activists attacking police officers with sledgehammers, so thanks for highlighting that, OP.

I know this is not what the thread is about, but there are of course many other protesters against the destruction in Gaza who have no connection with PA.

Oh, but it's not just two people who have committed criminal damage, committing criminal damage is literally what Palestine Action do. That's the point of the group. They have training days and a list of targets.

What did you think they do?

@OneCoralCat

Well presumably becuase if only two people have committed that there are far more than two members then it isn’t representative.

Maybe not representative but for info as of 2 August there have been seven arrests made in connection with the Brize Norton attack, four of those individuals have been charged and remanded in custody.