Do the people being arrested for Palestine Action not know about the sledgehammer attack?

[noblegiraffe]

With 500-odd people having been arrested for expressing support for proscribed terrorist organisation Palestine Action, I'm just baffled as to why they are willing to get a criminal record which could bar them from travel to the USA and work in education for an organisation whose members attacked police officers with a sledgehammer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/disturbing-sledgehammer-attack-police-during-9463071

Regardless of whether this group should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation, surely no one should look at that and think 'yeah, that's a group I think should be allowed to continue to do its thing, attack a few more police officers with sledgehammers, that's the hill I'm willing to die on.'

Wouldn't you think 'I'm not sure if they should be proscribed as terrorists, but given the sledgehammer attack, I'm not going to turn up with banners in support and be arrested for them, I'll just get on with protesting the genocide instead because that's a better cause'.

So do they not know about the violence? Or do they not care and are willing to support violent organisations?

(note this is not a thread for debating Gaza, I want to talk about British people who are absolutely legally allowed to protest genocide but aren't allowed to support proscribed terrorist organisations - which is also not allowed on MN).

if they’d tried that in Saudi, they would be a smear on the tarmac. Hamas wouldn’t have thought twice, either.

@OneCoralCat

Do people not even know that Palestine Action are a direct action group who deliberately break into properties and commit criminal damage?

"Since its inception in 2020, Palestine Action has orchestrated a nationwide campaign of direct criminal action against businesses and institutions, including key national infrastructure and defence firms that provide services and supplies to support Ukraine, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO), “Five Eyes” allies and the UK defence enterprise. Its activity has increased in frequency and severity since the start of 2024 and its methods have become more aggressive, with its members demonstrating a willingness to use violence. Palestine Action has also broadened its targets from the defence industry to include financial firms, charities, universities and government buildings. Its activities meet the threshold set out in the statutory tests established under the Terrorism Act 2000. This has been assessed through a robust evidence-based process, by a wide range of experts from across government, the police and the Security Services.
In several attacks, Palestine Action has committed acts of serious damage to property with the aim of progressing its political cause and influencing the Government. These include attacks at Thales in Glasgow in 2022; and last year at Instro Precision in Kent and Elbit Systems UK in Bristol. The seriousness of these attacks includes the extent and nature of damage caused, including to targets affecting UK national security, and the impact on innocent members of the public fleeing for safety and subjected to violence. The extent of damage across these three attacks alone, spreading the length and breadth of the UK, runs into the millions of pounds.
During Palestine Action’s attack against the Thales defence factory in Glasgow in 2022, the group caused over a million pounds of damage including to parts essential to submarines. The Sherif, in passing custodial sentences for the attackers’ violent crimes, spoke of the panic among staff who feared for their safety as pyrotechnics and smoke bombs were thrown in the area where they were evacuating. He further recorded the extent of damage to legitimate business activities which included “matters of nationwide security” and disputed the group’s claims its actions were non-violent. The attacks at Elbit Systems in Bristol and Instro Precision in Kent remain sub judice. To avoid prejudicing future criminal trials the Government will not comment on the specifics of these incidents.
Palestine Action has provided practical advice to assist its members with conducting attacks that have resulted in serious damage to property. In late 2023, Palestine Action released “The Underground Manual”. The document encourages the creation of cells; provides practical guidance on how to carry out activity against private companies and government buildings on behalf of Palestine Action; and provides a link to a website which contains a map of specific targets across the UK. The manual encourages members to undertake operational security measures to protect the covert nature of their activity.
Through its media output, Palestine Action publicises and promotes its attacks involving serious property damage, as well as celebrating the perpetrators."

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2025-06-23/hlws726

As an obviously intelligent person with a long MN history, you really ought to know better than to take Wiki at face value. You or I could add any old nonsense to it.

Or you could look at the government statement above? Are they also talking nonsense?

Do you have any idea who Palestine Action are or what they do??

@noblegiraffe Oh but they are the heroes of the day, the saboteurs, just like the French Resistance... I honestly think this is how some people view the whole thing.

My own view is tainted by the rancid posts on MN immediately (and for a couple of years) after 7 Oct 2023. There were just avalanches of poisonous threads mocking Israel and saying how much they deserved what had happened. Also wild nonsense that was never retracted even when proven false. I was absolutely gobmacked.

Someone was pulling the strings there, and I have had my suspicions about the so-called "pro-Palestinian" marches ever since, especially that the first one took place the following weekend and was classic DARVO tactics.

Yes, things have got messy since but the main focus is never on Hamas.

There evidence to suggest the first marches that weekend were planned before the 7 October attack…

Yes, permission was applied for to the Met Police on 7 October as the atrocities were unfolding. I'm afraid this has tainted my view somewhat of how helpful these protests are, or at least make me wonder who they are specifically helping.

Well yes, obviously. But you suggested Wikipedia …..
Some. Assuming that you are simply a member of the public (a teacher, I believe, from years of sometimes reading your posts?), we probably have reasonably similar knowledge.

I don’t believe for a moment that the majority of posters on your thread expressing their concern about the multiple arrests this weekend past are “supporters” of PA or indeed Hamas, taking that to its logical conclusion.

What they are, as am I, is alarmed at the treatment of hundreds of people who are very obviously not terrorists but may well officially be branded as such for the rest of their days because they dared to peacefully protest under the general banner of a very recently prescribed organisation. An organisation which a growing number of experts in the field of terrorism, politicians, influential media, etc., with a far greater understanding of PA than you or I, are publicly declaring ought never have been prescribed.

The UK Government has been played, risen to it and panicked in a desperate attempt to appease supporters of odious people like Farage and Tice. It has simply not thought this through. As we continue to see increasingly horrifying pictures from the man (Netanyahu)-made starvation and indiscriminate murder by his forces on our screens and the front of our newspapers on a daily basis, I wouldn’t be the least surprised if there isn’t a far greater number of such protestors on the streets of London next weekend. And so on. Will they all be “terrorists”, too?

No. Of course not.

I think in a contest, attacking police with sledgehammers is trivial compared to genocide so I can see why they support them yes. I think we need much more civil unrest tbh - after what Trump’s done today it feels like the whole world is just sitting back clutching pearls at all the wrong things instead of what we should be doing which is revolting en masse.

Apologies. Last post in reply to @noblegiraffe

@Sassoon

I'm not sure why it needs to be a contest at all.

Why is it impossible to accept that Israel is behaving abhorrently, and also that you cannot go round damaging military jets and attacking police?

And attacking someone with a sledgehammer is worse than someone going 35 in a 30 zone but I still expect the police to give them a ticket if they spot them.

Why are you calling for civil unrest over Gaze but not Sudan? What do you expect it to achieve? Why do you think destroying the peace and security of this country does anything more than play into the hands of those who would be happy to see us destroyed? Or are you Iranian National Guard?

@MrsSkylerWhite Someone else on the thread yesterday suggested that protestors would have gone to Wikipedia to get their info on Palestine Action, and it didn't mention a sledgehammer attack, which I why I mentioned Wikipedia. If you look at the Wikipedia page on Palestine Action, it has a long section on actions taken by them, many involving criminal damage. So even people who use Wikipedia as their source of info on the group should be aware of what they get up to.

Do I think that the list of actions on Wikipedia is any old nonsense added by someone wanting to smear Palestine Action though? No - because it contains links to all the news articles, matches what I have read about them, and Palestine Action proudly claim their activities on social media.

As I have said before on this thread, whether they should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation or not isn't what I'm interested in. None of us know all the details because apparently the government can't tell us, but it's going to the courts anyway so presumably they'll get all the info and can make a better informed decision than you or me.

However, if I was concerned about a ban on an organisation and wanted to protest in support of that group, I would want to make sure in advance that that group was actually worth protesting for. If I was going to personally risk getting a criminal record for this support, I would want to make sure that this organisation were bloody amazing. Which is why I am confused that people are doing this for an organisation which currently has members awaiting trial for an (alleged) sledgehammer attack on police officers. I personally also have issues with the fact that they break into places and smash them up with sledgehammers, but I can see why others might not find that a dealbreaker.

Attacking the police though, putting one of them in hospital - I just can't believe that the 86 year old pensioners know that's what they're turning up to support.

Wouldn't it make more sense to be protesting genocide or Trump?

Ah is there, still not representative as you say. But I was responding to this:

noblegiraffe · Today 17:51
You said "....two people who caused incredibly expensive criminal damage to a plane. Unacceptable behaviour in every way but clearly not representative of the group as a whole"

How is causing incredibly expensive criminal damage not representative of the group as a whole?

I appreciate there might’ve been more incidences of criminal damage, but @noblegiraffe was saying ‘how is this attack on bronze Norton not representative of the group’ and the really simple answer is because it only involved two people and the group is much larger than those two people.

Well I was going on your statement which was how is the incredibly expensive attack on bronze Norton not representative. And the answer is because it was only committed by two of the members. A better response to the poster would have been “becuase this isn’t an isolated incident, they’re frequent and most members have committed criminal damage” (if that’s the case) if you want to make a link between criminal damage and the number of members.

The pa’s offences are not being made public as they are waiting to be tried in court.

i don’t see what refuelling Israeli jets has to do with anything as jets arent being used to fire on Gaza.

I’m sorry. I don’t look at Wikipedia (Instagram, TikTok, whatever) because its premise is pretty nonsensical. Anyone can “edit” (add nonsense).

I would rather trust information from - shock, horror - generally pretty widely trusted UK MSM sources.

This.

None of this would be going on if it were not for what is happening in Gaza.

Why not? Why aren’t people campaigning for Sudan?

They are. Just not here.

Why not here?

Sudan is having a civil war, equally awful outcomes, but what would the protest be?

PA are opposed to the UK government’s support of Israel in this particular conflict. As far as I know we don’t send Sudan arms/military support.

Because it’s about Palestine. HTH.

Well get yourself out on the streets this coming weekend and protest about/against the RSF according to your view 🤷‍♀️