Do the people being arrested for Palestine Action not know about the sledgehammer attack?

[noblegiraffe]

With 500-odd people having been arrested for expressing support for proscribed terrorist organisation Palestine Action, I'm just baffled as to why they are willing to get a criminal record which could bar them from travel to the USA and work in education for an organisation whose members attacked police officers with a sledgehammer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/disturbing-sledgehammer-attack-police-during-9463071

Regardless of whether this group should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation, surely no one should look at that and think 'yeah, that's a group I think should be allowed to continue to do its thing, attack a few more police officers with sledgehammers, that's the hill I'm willing to die on.'

Wouldn't you think 'I'm not sure if they should be proscribed as terrorists, but given the sledgehammer attack, I'm not going to turn up with banners in support and be arrested for them, I'll just get on with protesting the genocide instead because that's a better cause'.

So do they not know about the violence? Or do they not care and are willing to support violent organisations?

(note this is not a thread for debating Gaza, I want to talk about British people who are absolutely legally allowed to protest genocide but aren't allowed to support proscribed terrorist organisations - which is also not allowed on MN).

Is that what you call attacking police officers with a sledgehammer?

No.

I was replying to BeachTastic, who referred to the weekend protesters as such. Omitted their quote. My bad.

The weekend protesters in question were protesting in support of Palestine Action.

Actually, OP, I did so not my bad after all. Yours. My reply was perfectly straightforward.

I would say large numbers of people don’t believe that supporting this group should be illegal. They aren’t convinced they are terrorists and feel the process has limited their freedom of speech and allowable opinion. Perhaps rather than arresting people the government could explain in detail. On the whole few people respond well to being told what to say and think.

@CautiousLurker01

*Acc to the Guardian (article about a hour ago) the govt spokesperson said they cause £7m damage. I find it hard to understand how that can be achieved without some level of violence? *

Easily done if we're talking aviation and about events at Brize.

The inside of the back end of at least one of the engines at Brize was sprayed with paint.

That has the potential to contaminate oil systems, seals and cooling air flow so we're almost certainly talking about at least one engine change, the.compromised engine going back to the builder for a strip down and rebuild.

You quickly get into multiple millions, even for one engine

Luckily it’s occurred to a judge that the PA have a case

I don't see how you can separate them.
This group exists because of the violence of the Israeli state.

Indeed. So why not wait for the result? Why the urgency to reinstate them immediately?

Exactly. Burglary using a sledgehammer. Which they brought to smash up equipment used in the support of Israrli actions against Palestinians.

They were not charged with using a sledgehammer to attack people!

because they didn't. Clearly

The article you posted came out at the time of the arrests. The Bristol reporters did not have the facts. They posted innacurately without verifying anything. The article I posted was the charges after the investigation.
It’s called innocent before proven guilty.

Bit confused. Reinstate them…to what. ?

In terms of waiting for PA to take the HO to court. That could take years. Gaza doesnt have years.

Reversing the ban, so that they can do whatever they like...?

No, the other people were charged with aggravated burglary using a sledgehammer, that’s bringing a sledgehammer to smash up stuff.

This guy was charged with aggravated burglary using as sledgehammer as an offensive weapon, and he was also charged with grievous bodily harm and actual bodily harm. Offensive weapons are used to injure people, not smash stuff up. He is presumably the one who used the sledgehammer to injure people (the GBH and ABH) which is why in his charge it is described as an offensive weapon and in the others it is not.

It’s literally in what you posted.

What do you mean, "Gaza doesn't have years"? Do you think that Palestine Action are single-handedly capable of achieving peace in the region?

What ban. On following them do you mean
They'd have to reverse PAs designation as a terrorist group first.

The Gaza war is at its height now.

Starvation is happening now. Hence the demonstrations.

and of course I don’t thing PA can single handedly end the war. They’re making a bloody good stab at how companies in this country are supporting it though. They’ve outed our Government for shutting down free speech.

Perfectly reasonable and legal to demonstrate against what is going on in Gaza though?

B-b-but I thought we were talking specifically about support for Palestine Action, and how wrong it is that they have been proscribed, and how right it is that decent citizens should martyr themselves to that cause rather than expressing protest by other means. This fierce loyalty to an organisation that has been shelved for what sounds like a much-needed closer look just doesn't make any sense.

Of course.
Which ever side of the war you are on. It’s perfectly reasonable to demonstrate

Israelis in Israel are doing a good job of it.

I think you’ll find it hasn’t been shelved. That’s the point. People and the UN don’t agree with the UKs stance on this.

So people carry on regardless.

So it hasn't been proscribed?

I’ve read it all noble. The sledgehammer was used against people or arresting bodies

aggravated burglary using a sledgehammer as an offensive weapon.
not grievous bodily harm using a sledgehammer as an offensive wespon

You're twisting the very words because you started a thread in haste. A thread you thought would be a gotcha against PA. Then you asked don’t these people know what PA do before they match
Dont you check you’re facts first

You didn’t do the very thing you were criticising others for not doing and now you are desperately trying to salvage credibility

Sorry noble. But you are quite clearly wrong on this.
Might as well have posted from X like so many pro Israeli supporters.

Noones shut down free speech, you can protest shoulder to shoulder with Palestine Action, about the exact same thing they claim to want, screaming it at the top of your lungs freely. You’ll only be arrested if you’re demonstrating support for that specific group, not he cause itself. We have free speech, not freedom from consequence and people have been well informed of the consequence of supporting this specific group.

What do you mean I started the thread in haste? I've got a news report where people were injured using a sledgehammer and then a guy charged with injuring people who used a sledgehammer as an offensive weapon which means used to injure people.

The other people had aggravated burglary using a sledgehammer, but not as an offensive weapon and they did not injure people.

And either way, you seem to be suggesting that he seriously injured people, but the really important bit is whether it was with a sledgehammer or not?

Insane, isn’t it @noblegiraffe ?

During the incident, two officers were assaulted with a sledgehammer, Avon and Somerset Police said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0e81qv784go