Mandatory vaccinations to access nursery and school?

[rickyrickygrimes]

I’m British but have lived in France since my youngest was 5 months old. Both my children had to have a full programme of vaccinations (I think it’s 11 in total) before starting nursery / school. I’m surprised to find out that there aren’t any mandatory vaccinations for children going into a group setting here in the UK and wondered how that would go down if it was required? Especially now that there seen to be rising numbers of children are not being vaccinated against serious illnesses such as measles.

It against their human rights, it won’t happen in this country.

I’d be in favour. Parents should either vaccinate or visit the clinic to get an exemption certificate which would need a clear reason. They would mean people wouldn’t fail to get the kids vaccinated because they are disorganised or misinformed but could opt out if they have a strong belief against it.

It's not against their human rights, people have the same human rights in the UK and France.

You want to give the government the power to deny you tax payer funded services, based on their medical decisions? Absolutely not.

This is not an anti vax statement. My children are vaccinated.

Vaccine damage is real... allergic reactions, side effects etc. Or just a concern due to the health of the child. To act in a child's best interests, you need to weigh up the risks with the benefits. Not "MMR causes autism" conspiracy theories.

When you compel someone to do something, you close down conversation.

I think that everyone should have to attend an appointment even if to just officially refuse, maybe with an official declaration you understand the risks of not vaccinating.

@rickyrickygrimes I think there is more vaccine scepticism in France so they made the childhood vaccinations more or less mandatory because they didn't think enough people would do it voluntarily to achieve herd immunity. If the number of children vaccinated drops below a certain level in the UK, it'll be introduced in the UK as well for public health reasons. The only reason it hasn't been introduced already is because enough people do it without being forced to. The only thing that is a bit different in the UK is that a lot more toddlers aren't in nursery, so I think it would be more difficult to link it to being able to access childcare because there are more stay at home mums in the UK.

Vaccinations should be mandatory unless there's a genuine medical reason.

The government deny access to tax-payer funded services for people based on all sorts of reasons.

Exposing other children to diseases that might kill them, when it’s unnecessary, seems quite high up on the ‘good incentive’ list.

Interesting when there is a local outbreak of measles the parents who were adamant they wouldn’t vaccinate their child run to the GP.

When their child has most likely already been exposed, brains of Britain, that lot.

If you want to change the law you need to lobby parliament rather than mumsnet. We have a consent based health system so are unlikely to make vaccination a pre condition of essential services.

We have to opt out of organ donation, so why don’t they use the opt out of vaccination, which would get more kids vaccinated and increase herd immunity.

They are going to add chicken pox to the MMR, so imagine the kicking off that will cause.

Actually, re-quoting this because it demonstrates an important point.

These are parents who know that vaccines work, and that being vaccinated is far safer than catching the illness.

They are only happy for their children to be unvaccinated against measles as long as there is no measles. And when there is no measles, the reason there is no measles is because almost everyone else has vaccinated their children. So they understand that vaccines work, they understand the concept of herd immunity, and they understand that their children are only safe as long as other children are vaccinated, but they won't do their bit to protect the community.

They are unspeakably selfish.

I would support mandatory vaccines for school admissions, unless there is a medical exemption.

Chicken pox is an interesting one.

It's not a mandatory or even widely available vaccination in France.

My doctor told me it was because it is better for children to catch chicken pox than be vaccinated against it. When my two year old actually caught chicken pox really badly and then gave it to his 5 month old sister (thankfully less badly), I did some research and discovered that the real reason they prefer to let kids catch it naturally is not because it is better for the child, but for public health reasons. Apparently having children out and about with the live chicken pox virus in their system helps make older people more resistant to shingles and protects them.

Also, mandatory vaccination will limit the access of some vulnerable children to education. They need to kearn ration science and skills from qualified professionals not selected facts from their parents home education.

(Not all home edders!)

I think anti-vaxxers are nutters, but I still think they should get a right to choose. Covid showed me that, I'm so glad my DC was young enough to avoid that vaccine. Forcing people to vaccinate is a slippery path to nowhere good.

I think I would support it at nursery. Lots of babies start nursery before they have had their 12 month vaccines (or before immunity has built up) and the thought of sending an unvaccinated baby to a nursery with regular measles outbreaks is terrifying. Not everyone can afford 12 months maternity leave. Immunocompromised children also shouldn’t have to miss out on an education because of the choices of others.

I suspect there is already a fairly large overlap between home ed'ers and anti vaxxers.

Surely the opposite applies too? If vaccine levels drop immunocompromised children miss out on an education because it becomes too dangerous for them to go to school.

I think this might not be in the best interests of the unvaccinated children.
Who since their parents are hard of thinking (allergies etc. excepted) will be some of the more vulnerable in society.

Yes to mandatory unless medically exempt. I’m not sure school refusal is the was to go though. Maybe fines?

There's a pretty obvious difference between organ donation and vaccination, unless doctors are taking the organs of living people without consent?

I'm sure it is a thing at nursery, I had to provide a list of vaccine proof for my DC