Mandatory vaccinations to access nursery and school?

[rickyrickygrimes]

I’m British but have lived in France since my youngest was 5 months old. Both my children had to have a full programme of vaccinations (I think it’s 11 in total) before starting nursery / school. I’m surprised to find out that there aren’t any mandatory vaccinations for children going into a group setting here in the UK and wondered how that would go down if it was required? Especially now that there seen to be rising numbers of children are not being vaccinated against serious illnesses such as measles.

Already having one child vaccine damaged and not wanting to risk another, has absolutely nothing to do with "Google" research.

What a fucking insult!
So incredibly foolish and inconsiderate of victims....

Well if the NHS has "damaged" one child, why would you trust them to care for them when they get sick? Pay for private so we don't have to pay for your decisions.

Ditto...
For all of you who are pushing parents who already have vaccine damage in the family, I hope there is some sort of purgatory where this happens to you blah blah blah

I do pay.

Good - it should cause a bloody kicking off because we shouldn’t just be adding yet another vaccine into what is already a potent cocktail without extensive research. And this research is just not happening. You don’t need to look far to find that out. Mumsnet really is a hornets nest of closed mindedness and deep trust in the state and medicine, two institutions that prove time and time again they shouldn’t be trusted

@Petitchat well they fall in to the second group of having made a conscious decision not to vaccinate. The argument still stands really, I’m not sure withdrawing state education from those families really benefits anyone.

And the incidence of vaccine damage from MMR is what?

Some of us got the chicken pox vaccine for our kids precisely because we didn't trust the state's assessment on the matter. My children miss out on the vaccine because of some vague idea it'd make adults less likely to get shingles?! I think the fuck not.

There are loads of MNers who paid privately for it, quite common on here.

I lived somewhere where it was mandatory for enrollment in school and preschool for a few years. It was also tied to child benefit payments (which had an income cap). All it does it mean that those who are able to be home with their kids, and don't get the child benefit anyway due to high income, are the ones with a choice in the matter. I believe choice is important. Should it only be for the privileged?

If it's your child, the overall incidence doesn't really matter, does it? (My kids have had MMR, for the record).

You’re assessing risk as to action or inaction beforehand. The risk from infectious disease is massively, massively bigger than from the MMR.

Plus of course by not vaccinating, anti-vaxxers are endangering other children as well as their own.

I am pro vax but I think there would be a backlash if vaccines were mandated and it would cause people to harden their stance. Better to have better education campaigns about the benefits of vaccines; improve access to vaccines to make it easier for parents; also promote parents and staff working with children and babies being vaccinated; legislate and monitor clean air in schools and nurseries which will reduce spread of all airborne infections; and put in place compulsory quarantine periods for any unvaccinated children if there's a case of measles in a school or nursery to reduce the chance of an outbreak.

If I believe something puts my child at risk (rightly or wrongly), I'm not going to give them the vaccination for your child. Your child can get the vaccine for themselves then.

My family does carry risks that make every vaccine more likely to cause a reaction in them than in most people. I've found doctors very unhelpful in sorting through these issues. I've done most of them but I'm grateful to have the choice for each and every one.

It's the law here in Australia too 😊

The chicken pox vaccine had been around for a long time now, its safety is well-known. You really don't need to worry about that one.

Absolutely (though I thought it was covered somewhat in PSHE?). Its mandatory in upper school in my country and covers a lot, which I think is really good.

It's against the child's human rights to not have them vaccinated, @PersephoneParlormaid . It's child neglect and against the human rights of the child.

Hmmm I think every young child would choose to not die from preventable childhood diseases just because their parents were misinformed and thought they knew better than a bunch of scientists plus a lot of data that shows vaccines work 🤷‍♀️

All children that can be vaccinated should be vaccinated. Those who genuinely can’t be vaccinated, including those too young, are protected by the transmission barrier effect of others’ vaccinations.

The trouble comes when shithead freeloading anti-vaxxers don’t vaccinate but try to take advantage of the herd protection of those who do. Anti-vaxxers will sometimes make up bogus stories about medical conditions to try to justify their selfish neglect.

If enough anti-vaxxers freeload, the thresholds needed for herd immunity can’t be reached and there are outbreaks of infectious disease. Then the anti-vaxxers get their children vaccinated. When a disease is on the march anti-vaxxers’ reasons for not vaccinating their kids miraculously disappear. But, of course, by the time there are outbreaks children will have suffered unnecessarily.

That’s how it works.

It would rightly go down like a cup of cold sick. We came close to losing medical autonomy during covid. No state country or government should be given that much control of peoples bodies

This.

I understand why some people like the idea. I went through the lovely experience of having a child too young to be vaccinated whilst living in an area with a measles cluster myself. It was oodles of fun.

But we live in a democracy and this is not something that the population would actually have, especially not after the pandemic experience. A lot of posters seem to think should is a suitable substitute for is.

Vaccines save millions of lives yearly. Vaccines save millions from permanent disability yearly. As potent cocktails go, it's not a free Long Island Iced Tea for toddlers, it's more like an invicibility shield against the Grim Reaper.

Humans come into contact with multiple pathogens daily - it's why we sterilise bottles, wash hands and developed pasturisation (although some have been convinced that this is also a terrible thing). A vaccine with multiple components is no different where the immune system is concerned from what it has to deal with on a daily basis - it's just ensuring that it encounters the worst diseases in a form that doesn't give them those diseases so if they are encountered at a later point, it can fight them off quickly before the individual gets ill or can spread them to others. It's an individual Good and a public Good.

And the greatest thing about it? It's free. Everybody, no matter their income, no matter the level of financial contribution to society, no matter their parents' net worth, their employment status, can be protected from death, infertility, limb amputations, suffocating slowly or quickly, deafness, pain, some cancers and suffering from diseases that can be easily prevented.

We all benefit from vaccination every day. Even those who have vaccine injuries - as they aren't dying of smallpox, TB, rabies, diphtheria, tetanus, meningitis or polio.

Anti-vaxxers are child neglectors pure and simple.

I cannot see how that could possibly work. You can't get shingles unless you have had chicken pox. The mere fact of there being children in the community with the virus in their system can't protect older people. If there was compulsory chicken pox vaccination, the incidence of shingles would inevitably drastically reduce over time.

I don't disagree. It doesn't change the fact it's not the child's decision but people are salivating advocating for the child to miss out - and calling it the consequences of their actions?